I think more importantly you should decide how you are going to use your modelling skills...

Here's the thing: anyone can learn software. Solid-modelling and surface-modelling surface is simple to use BUT what are you going to do with that? Remember that whatever you design needs to function in real life too. My point is that if you specialise in a particular field then stick to it 'cos once you branch into something you're unfamiliar with and make a mess of a project you'll have ruined your reputation. Plus you will be held liable for lost costs too...

Modelling in Solidworks is also about understanding engineering. Solidworks has a lot of functionality aimed at this, particularly for sheet metal fabrication and mould design.

I guess that's part of what I'm wondering. Is there room for someone who is an artist but does not have engineering experience?

The professional work I have done with MoI has been things our engineering department couldn't do. (Engineers are very smart people, but often they are not artists.) So I'm wondering how much my situation matches the rest of whats out there. Do the engineers need people who are just good at modeling neat shapes?

The problem with creating nice shapes in MoI or Rhino is translating that into an engineering file in Solidworks. Basically you would have to reconstruct the original shape, which would import as a "dumb" solid with no parametric history. This is a lot of work. If you can work directly in SW you stand a better chance.

Larger companies work with artists more than smaller companies, but they are then required to work in a plm environment, because your beautiful drawing hits the engineers desk who makes changes related to the real world. Most smaller shops will pick the engineer over the artist because their daily work is making parts.

""Do the engineers need people who are just good at modeling neat shapes?"""" The engineers dont need ANYBODY!!! lol

The artist is considered by the design/marketing aspect. His stuff is sent to the engineer.

From my experience in the retail imprinted apparel industry, the creative design work originates from design firms and advertising agencies contracted to manage the corporate identities of the companies ultimately selling the goods.
This is particularly true for larger companies. In other words, as far as larger companies goes, the neat stuff (and the way they look) are first conceptualized on the artistic level by the contracted marketing agency in charge. Producing products that would be most appealing to the broadest market of consumers.
The engineering, especially for existing products is secondary, going back and forth. Marketing is the driving force, if it don't sell, they shouldn't make.

Please note that it's the engineers invent the stuff, and since form often follows function, the marketing company does it's best to make it look good. And with a little back and forth, a product is born and placed on the shelves.
If a company has it's own department for each of those functions, then it's probably a tightly closed inside thing.

If you look on line for product designers, you'll find at least three categories: companies that do the design, engineering and manufacturing from start to finish, firms that are hired for design and engineering, and finally designers and artists that work freelance - whom get to come up with the ideas based on their reputation and connections,
I believe the designer of the modern day Swiffer duster products fall into that category...
It's all about prowess and reputation at that point.

But then again, I know very little from my prospective - and of course, if you poses whiz-bang skills with MoI, obtain some engineering education and start producing design work that has people talking - chances are that there's some firm out there that would consider bringing you on to a staff containing artists and engineers.


MoI is a superb application for visualizing a product with out being bogged down by the worries of engineering - for conceptualization's sake. It's has it's very needed place.
But since yes, "form follows function", a parametrics based engineering application is what's needed for the majority of the process.
That requires engineering.
If you happen to be an engineer that can think artistically, then the advantage is yours.

Being able to do 3D modeling to earn a living is a wonderful thing, IMHO. It takes a lot of effort, a willingness to adapt and learn many new things along the the way and quite often, something unique. I also think it requires more than just using MoI, as awesome as it is. Think of a tool box - it has more than one tool to suit different requirements. I think even Michael Gibson stresses that additional tools are required, since MoI was not created to be the one and only tool. I believe he says it is a tool to allow ideas to be laid down quickly for development further along in more suitable programs.

I started out learning one CAD system on my own when I needed some illustrations for a project I was doing for myself (book illustrations). I stumbled across TurboCAD and fell in love with it. There was very little in the way of tutorials to learn it by, so when I got proficient I started to create unique comprehensive project tutorials (200-300+ pages). At first I gave them away, but was soon encouraged to market and sell them. That was a number of years ago and I have continued to do this as a large part of my business. This is the unique part I was referring to. It was a whole untapped market where I developed a name for myself.

Those tutorials brought a large number of visitors to my web site and even a few long term clients, who at first thought they might like to learn TurboCAD to help in their own business. Some found that it was way more intense than they had expected and just asked me if I would do the work for them. I said yes each time and expanded my business to include graphics and design. To continue to meet the many varied needs (3D trade show booth visuals for one client, engineering & manufacturing drawings and product renders for a couple others and Ad work for yet another) I have had to learn many software programs and I use them all continually, many overlapping with each project. I came in knowing TurboCAD, I then learned and became proficient with Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign. I then had to learn SolidWorks as one client needed me to do so (they supplied the software, thank goodness). I also picked up MoI to help fill in a couple gaps and although I don't get to use it as much as I would like, I know the power it has. MoI exports well, so I can and do bring things created in MoI to other programs.

I guess what I am trying to say is - put in the effort to learn lots. Don't be afraid to try new tools and don't fall into the trap of thinking you can do it all with one tool. Sometimes it doesn't matter what the tools are but rather the output. Can you meet the needs of your clients? It doesn't hurt to know at least one of the big name programs like SolidWorks, as that can get your foot into doors (as an employee), but more often than not you will not know the 'right software'. But as a freelancer, you can use the not so well known software such as TurboCAD or MoI and be okay - as long as you can deliver and file share when required. You will require a software that can do the detailing and a CAD application, for one, can help you do that.

I was one of Don´s pupils. Long time ago.

Meanwhile I am TC betatester and moderator in the German TC forum.

Rudl

The gap between art and engineering is usually filled with an Industrial Designer. I think that is the type of work you are describing, although ID encompasses more than just 3d modeling.

I do ID for a large door hardware company, working with engineers and marketing. The standard 3d software for the industry that I see in job postings are: solidworks, pro-e, alias or Rhino. I use Moi since I run the studio and want to focus more on creativity and exploring different concepts than getting too worried with technical details (I let the engineers have fun with that)

But I think what is important about software is knowing theory. Generally if you understand 3d theory (nurbs, poly, etc...) then you can learn whatever software might be required at whatever company.

Check out coroflot, which is a place you can post portfolios and browse jobs.

Just make sure you are going to do it because you are passionate about design. Regardless if it is considered two or three dimensional geometry, wireframe, surface or solid modeling, parametric history based or direct modeling, just make sure you follow your heart, and not the job market. :-)

Michael T.

""Do the engineers need people who are just good at modeling neat shapes?"""" The engineers dont need ANYBODY!!! lol

They need machinist to make what they draw!!!!! lol

Got me, although surely they can run those silly machines!! :o

"The gap between art and engineering is usually filled with an Industrial Designer" That's what I was looking for! I knew there must be some kind of job title that would help me do more research.

thanks

During the Renaissance period their were schools/apprentice programs for Artist/Engineers under such tutor's as da Vinci etc. If I had the funding, I think a program like they had during the Renaissance period would be a good investment. :-)

Michael T.