Hello Michael,

It looks to me as though you've cracked it !

I am afraid that I am going to expose my ignorance here - did you intersect the wing and fuselage surfaces and then apply various fillets ?

I confess that I am struggling to understand how you achieved your result.

The "sliver" you pointed out was an attempt by me to fill the the original gap I discovered, between the upper and lower wing surfaces. I am still puzzled as to how I created the gap in the first place.

Is there any sort of "history" file created within your software that would allow me to review previous actions ?

John

Hi John,

> I am afraid that I am going to expose my ignorance here - did
> you intersect the wing and fuselage surfaces and then apply
> various fillets ?

That's actually Burr's model that he attached above here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=4488.6

It looks like he cleaned up that little slivery part and got the wing and body joined together as one connected piece and then used Fillet to produce the rounding - here it looks like he used the "Shape: G2 blend" option for generating the fillet, which puts a kind of more semi-organic shaped blend surface for the generated fillet rather than one that has an exact circular cross section like a regular fillet. That option can be good when you want to have a somewhat more seamless looking connection between 2 pieces.

The fillet seems to have worked well for the leading edge area, but the small area on the trailing edge side needs some rework since the filleter tries to build a corner patch there that is kind of squished up so that part needs to be deleted and something else filled in there.

But it's pretty important to get the base surfaces cleaned up with that little slivery piece removed - having a little slivery bit like that will tend to get in the way of a lot of kinds of techniques of trying to make a good connection.

- Michael

Hi John,

> Is there any sort of "history" file created within your software
> that would allow me to review previous actions ?

No, there's nothing yet for reviewing a log of all actions that were used to build a particular model. That is something that I want to work on in the future.

If you are still in the same modeling session you can try to use Undo to rewind things though.

- Michael

This short video shows what I did to your model...I also added a slightly different method to the leading edge of the wing, to get what "I" thought was a better surface.. But not needed.. Basically just showing the making of 2 solids that will union properly for a fillet.. An n-sided patch is need to finish off the trailing edge.. I cant tell you how many times I need that command!!! :o (still havnt purchased Rhino)

Sound is very good this time! ;)

Cool tutorial!

Ps What is the code for put the Youtube video inside the forum?

Hello BurrMan !

I was just about to post a message asking why I could not unzip your original fillet model - when I noticed that you had posted your video.

To say that I am blown-away by your video response is an understatement !

I shall watch it repeatedly until I fully understand all of the contents.

Incidentally, I had come to the conclusion that I had chosen the wrong method of creating the wing in the first place. But hey-ho, one learns by mistakes !

Many thanks again.


John

Good Morning Michael, (Well it is here in wet and windy Hertfordshire)

This has been a very useful learning session - particularly the "Rebuild" command.

I am now an official fan of both MOI an BurrMan !

John

Burr:

When is your training book with video DVD for MOI coming out :-P.

Cool video Burr! believe it or not I didn't know you could pick a whole open ended joined surface and just hit 'planar' to instantly cap the ends and turn into to a solid, I used to pick the edges, cap the ends, then join, who knew! We learn something new every day :)

Thanks!
~Danny~

BTW you could try a tiny fillet on that trailing edge before the union and main fillet that should get rid of that fillet abnormality.

"... I didn't know you could pick a whole open ended joined surface and just hit 'planar' to instantly cap the ends and turn into to a solid, I used to pick the edges, cap the ends, then join"

Me too. Guess I better read the manual :)

Ed

Burr makes a darn good tutorial - Good work Burr!

Cool video Burr!

It's always interesting to see how others work.
I also learned about the planar capping feature and that you can crank up the blend value past the slider max.

Marc

Thanks guy's!!!!


Frenchy: """"""""""What is the code for put the Youtube video inside the forum?""""""""""

It's the embed button, but you have to go just below that and put a check mark in "use old embed code", then copy and paste.. The forum will strip out everything but the embed part...

So it looks like this part of a flash embed tag:

embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Yp1NXKwyf6I?version=3&hl=en_US&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="560" height="345" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></embed

(i removed the begining and ending brackets so it shows in the forum)

@Burr many thx!
A little test :=) Works like a charm!
Not from me just taken by hasard! Seems not a plane's engine even there is a propeller :)

Your welcome Frenchy! That looks like the Complex engine model used in a viewport comparison, where MoI's viewport "blew doors" on the 10-20 K opponents!!! :o

Hi Danny,

"""""""""""""BTW you could try a tiny fillet on that trailing edge before the union and main fillet that should get rid of that fillet abnormality."""""""

Yeah, I tried that.. It works with a smaller fillet, but trying to do that huge "2 inch" fillet still produces that buggard up trailing edge...

I think a Variable fillet command will allow it to get the results desired. Like Michael mention, I think the desired result would be to have the fillet "ignore" that corner patch and just meet itself..

Here is a screenshot of a variable fillet in ViaCAD using a "by position option":



This is one in my CAM package that has a notoriously weak fillet engine (It's more of a CAM package, with Simple "solid modeling" adding in:



If I add any value other than "0" in this one, the corner patch buggers up also...

Punchcad produced a nice result!

Funny, Michael always states that MoI can be a nice "companion" to Rhino.. I have been considering buying Rhino to be a Companion to MoI!!! (Never really get it's interface or methods, but the plethera of advanced commands can be accessed for single shot methods, while we wait for MoI to get some of these...

I've been hemming and hawing on my companion to choose, so havnt done it yet... I have been looking at a couple, but just havnt taken the plunge yet.

I also wanted to follow up, because I couldnt let it go.... I made the fillet work in MoI with Danny's suggestion. I had originally filleted the trailing edge, but that puts seams at very small intervals that still messed with the filleter... Here I show getting a good wing root fillet out of MoI by creating a single, contiguous surface for the trailing edge.



Thanks Da.nny

Thanks for showing this clever setup. :-)

Peace,
Rich_Art. ;)

"I have been considering buying Rhino to be a Companion to MoI!!!"
You hit on a sentiment that had come to me through frustration the previous day: I had to do, what I thought, simple vector tracing of some art work. I usually go to "Inkscape" for line work, as AI has very uncomfortable line tools and process - this is what ensued:

" Lets start with a throught-point curve" - oh yeh, don't have it.
"Control-point curve", nope.
"Dammit I have to muk-around with those damn handles again!".
"Now where is the 3 point arc and circle?", ???, "intersect/fillet/blend/rebuild, ???!!!, inferred snapping and dynamic guides, ?!!!!!!."
"Dammit this interface is making my eyes bleed!"
"Note to self: if you do line work go directly to MOI - any type of complex technical drawing(that requires 3d-line-views, go to MOI) - if you want to relax, MOI -- Use AI as its companion".

Warning: feature requests ahead :)
There is one nice feature I miss(from Inkscape), creation handles persist past the point of creation(eg. 3 point circles have the 3 points left adjustable). And line intersection and trimming could be streamlined by allowing the 'brushing' away of intermediate line segments. But relatively speaking, MOI is heaven.

Hi Ambimind - it's still amazing to me that so many 2D illustration programs have stuck with the Bezier handle method instead of NURBS. The Bezier handle method tends to have that odd behavior of bulging out previous sections of the curve.

> There is one nice feature I miss(from Inkscape),
> creation handles persist past the point of creation(eg. 3
> point circles have the 3 points left adjustable).

Probably in MoI this will come as some kind of history related function eventually.


> And line intersection and trimming could be streamlined
> by allowing the 'brushing' away of intermediate line segments.

The tricky part about this is that MoI also has to deal with surfaces as well and not just curves alone - that can sometimes add some constraints for how a particular command is set up to operate. Also the current Trim workflow allows for just splitting objects up into pieces instead of necessarily eliminating any parts - that's a pretty important function to have as well.

So that's why that kind of trim may end up being some kind of additional QuickTrim command in the future, see here for some other discussion on it:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=4129.3

- Michael