How to make a Klein bottle?  1-20  21-22

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 From:  dodo (YLASTONE)
4469.1 

Help...help...
thanks
^ ^
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 From:  Michael Gibson
4469.2 In reply to 4469.1 
Hi dodo, it will probably be difficult to try and build that out of a single surface because of how it intersects itself.

Try building it in a few separate pieces, you will need to position some cross section curves and then use the Loft command to build a surface through them, or you may want to have a central path curve and then use Sweep to build the surface.

If you make some progress and then need some help, please post the 3DM model file of what you currently have here.

You may be able to find a mechanism to automatically generate a shape like that in some other system, like here's one for Rhino's Grasshopper system:
http://eat-a-bug.blogspot.com/2009/01/klein-bottle.html

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
4469.3 
See the Moebius thread : some idea can be apply ;) (scroll all)
http://moi3d.com/forum/messages.php?webtag=MOI&msg=4326.1
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 From:  Rudl
4469.4 
Here is a generator who makes this surfaces. It is free and makes .obj files.

http://k3dsurf.sourceforge.net/

Would be interessting to make this surfaces with moi. This surfaces are just representations of mathematical formulas.

Rudl
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 From:  Michael Gibson
4469.5 In reply to 4469.4 
> Here is a generator who makes this surfaces. It is free and makes .obj files.
>
> http://k3dsurf.sourceforge.net/

That would probably help out a lot to use as a reference.

To use the generated .obj file in MoI, you can use the OBJ to 3DM wireframe converter here: http://moi3d.com/wiki/Resources#Obj23dmWireframe_converter

That small converter program can read in an .obj file and then generate a 3DM file with lines in it for each of the polygon edges. That would give you a reference that you could use to snap on to for drawing some curves or things like that in MoI.

- Michael
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 From:  BurrMan
4469.6 In reply to 4469.5 
But you will never get a true solid because it is impossible...
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
4469.7 In reply to 4469.6 
< But you will never get a true solid because it is impossible...

I believe that you are wrong ;)
You must just find material that accept immersion submergence ;)
Take a look here ;)
http://www.kleinbottle.com/meter_tall_klein_bottle.html
Some technical material needing but result astonished!

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 From:  Rudl
4469.8 
But the solid is the surface.

Rudl
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
4469.9 In reply to 4469.8 
A surface with a tickness is also a solid :)
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 From:  BurrMan
4469.10 In reply to 4469.9 
Thats just a fakeout Frenchy!!! Physics makes it imposible.. There needs to be a 4th dimension.

Here's my model:

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=641344b395278ed0&sc=documents&uc=1&id=641344B395278ED0%21175#

Here is the conundrum highlighted with "get naked edges"...

EDITED: 19 Jun 2012 by BURRMAN

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
4469.11 
I don't see any 4D inside that :)
You can built this very easily
So that is a Klein's Cube? Yes you right :)


From JP Petit "Le topologicon" all about Topology in very undestanding in Comics book format PDF !

Exist in English (it's free ;)
Choose your language
here the Topologicon http://www.savoir-sans-frontieres.com/JPP/telechargeables/English/topo_the_world_eng.htm

Here all the books on some scientic subjects : All is free: a true gem !
And you translate some books if you want!
http://www.savoir-sans-frontieres.com/
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 From:  SteveMacc (STEVEH)
4469.12 
The Klein bottle shown is not a fake. In your model you need to make 2 holes. One where the naked edge is and one at the base. There is nothing difficult about extending the neck in through the bottle and out the base. However, your bottle needs to have some thickness to allow correct connections, just like a real one. What you cannot have in reality is a single surface with no thickness.
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 From:  BurrMan
4469.13 In reply to 4469.12 
""""""""The Klein bottle shown is not a fake.""""""""""""

The Klein bottle is a concept of a bottle that contains itself..

"""""""" In your model you need to make 2 holes. One where the naked edge is and one at the base."""""""""

At some point, the "surface" would have to travel through itself.. This is not possible. Could you demonstrate with a model about the extra holes you are refering too?

Sure you can blob glass together at that conundrum, but it is not a true "klein bottle".
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 From:  Michael T. (MICTU_UTCIM)
4469.14 
Here is my MoI Solid model Klein Bottle. Does this solve the problem?

Michael T.


Michael Tuttle a.k.a. mictu http://www.coroflot.com/DesignsByTuttle

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 From:  BurrMan
4469.15 In reply to 4469.14 
The part thats the "fake out" is that, if you look at Michael's model, at some point, the "open part" becomes the "some thickness part".

For instance, what can go inside of or is there an inside of 1/2 inch thick metal bar???

This is my statement that it is fake.. It cant be done. (in reality)
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 From:  Michael T. (MICTU_UTCIM)
4469.16 In reply to 4469.15 
Burr, Can you show me where mine is a fake? I have not checked it into any other systems yet, but would appreciate the feedback.

thanks

Michael T.
Michael Tuttle a.k.a. mictu http://www.coroflot.com/DesignsByTuttle
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 From:  mjs (MSHIDELER)
4469.17 In reply to 4469.16 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra62LW6NuGk

video of a klein bottle in a guy's hand
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 From:  BurrMan
4469.18 In reply to 4469.16 
Hi Michael T.
"""""Burr, Can you show me where mine is a fake? I have not checked it into any other systems yet, but would appreciate the feedback."""""

Let's see if this can do it..

It's been stated that "you cant do it with a surface, but you can do it with a SOLID"..

Here I have seperated out your surfaces. Showing the main part of the body. I colored the exterior as REd to note the 2 different pieces.. The original color is your grey color... This would be exclaimed as "solid" (The space in between the grey and red is some type of "material"...



Here I have added the surface that is connected to the grey "inside surface" of the "thickness".. This would denote that the exterior of the orange surface is "Solid" or some type of material..



If you follow that down into where it penetrates the large body again, you will discover that the solid becomes the space..

Someone needs to explain to me how "Glass" can do that...

EDITED: 19 Jun 2012 by BURRMAN

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 From:  Michael T. (MICTU_UTCIM)
4469.19 In reply to 4469.18 
Hi Burr,

Here is a section cut view of the part. I'm still not sure what you mean. Sorry for my thick-headedness :-)

Michael T.


Michael Tuttle a.k.a. mictu http://www.coroflot.com/DesignsByTuttle

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 From:  Michael T. (MICTU_UTCIM)
4469.20 
Hi Burr, do you mean something like this surface model as opposed to the solid model?



Michael Tuttle a.k.a. mictu http://www.coroflot.com/DesignsByTuttle

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