Hi Chyman - that's probably the result of a buggy video driver. That seems to be the biggest problem with Linux - video drivers for 3D acceleration are very complex and many video card vendors don't seem to put that much effort into developing the drivers for Linux.

But that's probably the area you want to look at - try to find if there is a newer driver available or sometimes you may need to look for an older driver.

- Michael

Thanks Michael for taking a look, it is an older Intel graphics, there is not much activity on its driver unfortunately.
I just wanted to collect some experience before trying that on my Mac.
I may have another try with newer hardware next month.

Thanks again,
Chyman

Hi Chyman, on the Mac the driver situation should not be a problem at least.

- Michael

Michael,

Have been using MoI under Ubuntu on my Dell Notebook for a while now and the good news is that everything seems to work OK - and sometimes it is even as fast as a native Windows install.

The bad news is that there seems to be a usability/speed penalty around dragging and/or moving objects. So if I select an object in the model (say a line or a collection of lines) and then try to move them somewhere else within the model then I *sometimes* get a slowdown that is very frustrating.

I don't really know what is going on there - but it seems as though it might be something to do with Javascript. Am assuming in this config that MoI is using the IE Javascript engine?

And on first use it all seems to be OK but after a little bit of use it seems to slow down considerably - assume you will know (a) if it is a Javascript issue and (b) how to deal with it.

But other than that it all works as advertised.

Roger

Hi Roger,

> Am assuming in this config that MoI is using the IE Javascript engine?

Yes - MoI v1 and v2 use the IE Javascript engine, called JScript.dll

This is changed for MoI v3 - MoI v3 uses the JavaScriptCore engine that is part of WebKit.

However, when you drag objects there is no JavaScript involved at all for that operation, it all happens in C++ code.

It's most likely to have something to do with the graphics display and the graphics driver, since moving objects causes a lot of screen redraws and heavy graphics usage during the move.

- Michael

That sounds like good news for us mac users, but are you (Michael) planing to make something like a wine MoI bottle? or every user will have to do it by itself? I dont know anything about code or something and by what i read you have to make some modifications to make moi work well in mac/linux.

Hi Ed, yeah definitely if it works well on a Mac using WINE I'll make an official release bundle so that it will set up like a regular Mac app.

There are a couple of different wrapper mechanisms to do that - WineBottler and Wineskin.

But I still don't know if it is going to work well or not - it kind of depends on how well WINE itself behaves on the Mac.


> and by what i read you have to make some modifications to
> make moi work well in mac/linux.

Actually v3 will already have those modifications in place, at least the ones that I know about from testing with Linux so far.

It's more of a question of whether WINE and its interface to OpenGL is robust enough.

- Michael

Hope it works, thanks!

Tried running the v3 beta under wine in Ubuntu today, but I get a ¨segmentation fault¨ message, and thats it. I want so badly for it to work.... :(

Hi Phr0stByte, what kind of video card do you have?

Can you try an experiment on your system? What happens if you go to the \ui folder within MoI's main installation folder (let me know if you can't find it, it's in some directory structure beneath the .wine folder or something like that) and edit the file MainWindowLayout.xml

In that MainWindowLayout.xml file, delete the line that says:

<ViewPanel dock="fill" />

And then try running MoI - does that run ok or do you still get a seg fault?

With that line commented out basically there will be no 3D viewports and so any kind of video driver related glitches will be taken temporarily out of the running for that test.

- Michael

Tried it, and still get the seg fault. I have an NVIDIA NVS 160M in this laptop. I will also try it on my desktop, which is running an nVidia GTX 260.

Hi Phr0stByte, which version of Wine are you running, are you possibly running either a fairly old version, or a beta version of it?

I just tested the v3 beta with Wine 1.3.15 running under Linux Mint 11 and it seems to be working fine for me here, other than the 3D graphics being sluggish without any accelerated video driver installed.

When you remove that viewpanel line from the MainWindowLayout.xml file, that pretty much takes the 3D graphics driver part out of the picture so you've got some problem other than that - maybe something in your Wine setup?

Are you able to run other apps under Wine ok, like what about its little notepad app?

- Michael

Yeah - the wine version is a little old - wine-1.2.2.
Other simple apps run OK, such as notepad. I am upgrading wine to 1.3.15 right now.

I get:

fixme:system:SetProcessDPIAware stub!
fixme:iphlpapi:NotifyAddrChange (Handle 0x8ede914, overlapped 0x8ede918): stub
wine: configuration in '/home/phr0sty/.wine' has been updated.
fixme:process:GetSystemDEPPolicy stub
fixme:process:SetProcessDEPPolicy (0): stub
Segmentation fault

Hi Phr0stByte,

> fixme:system:SetProcessDPIAware stub!
> fixme:iphlpapi:NotifyAddrChange (Handle 0x8ede914, overlapped 0x8ede918): stub
> wine: configuration in '/home/phr0sty/.wine' has been updated.
> fixme:process:GetSystemDEPPolicy stub
> fixme:process:SetProcessDEPPolicy (0): stub

These lines that say "stub" just mean that these are some particular Windows functions that Wine does not happen to implement yet. But these particular things should not really make any difference one way or the other.

Can you try running using winedbg instead of regular wine to see if it gives any information on where the crash is happening? When you use winedbg, it will break into the debugger when it starts up and then type in c and push enter to continue running after that.

Was there possibly any moi_report.zip files generated in the MoI program folder?

What particular version of Ubuntu are you using?

- Michael

Hi Phr0stByte, I just also ran a test using Ubuntu 11.4 and did not see any problems there either.

Are you possibly trying to install the v2 trial version instead of the just released v3 beta version?

Or are you maybe running on some older version of Ubuntu?

Also how did you install Wine, I used this:
sudo apt-get install wine1.3

That pulls in a variety of support libraries. If you used some other method for installing it maybe you did not get some kind of support libraries that are needed for some portions of Wine to function properly.

- Michael

Yeah - I am running Ubuntu 11.04 x64.
It might me something with this laptop video card. I will try on my desktop this weekend and let you know.

There was no zip file in the Moi directory. Maybe I am missing something... Do you need to install the windows version of the video driver into wine?

Hi Phr0stByte,

> Do you need to install the windows version of the video driver into wine?

No Wine itself uses OpenGL and will make use of whatever OpenGL driver is installed already, you don't need to (and can't really) install drivers within Wine itself.

- Michael

OK - I tried on my desktop and I get an inkling that things might work under the perfect storm of circumstances. Here is what I get:

phr0stbyte@Phr0styBox:~/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/MoI 3.0 beta Aug-24-2011$ wine MoI.exe
fixme:process:GetSystemDEPPolicy stub
fixme:process:SetProcessDEPPolicy (0): stub
Error: API mismatch: the NVIDIA kernel module has version 280.13,
but this NVIDIA driver component has version 275.21. Please make
sure that the kernel module and all NVIDIA driver components
have the same version.
err:winediag:X11DRV_WineGL_InitOpenglInfo Direct rendering is disabled, most likely your OpenGL drivers haven't been installed correctly
Error: API mismatch: the NVIDIA kernel module has version 280.13,
but this NVIDIA driver component has version 275.21. Please make
sure that the kernel module and all NVIDIA driver components
have the same version.
fixme:dbghelp:elf_search_auxv can't find symbol in module

I think that NVIDIA driver component has version 275.21 is an old version. I am not sure how to fix this though, as I don't want to break things so that Octane doesn't work (it does now, and wonderfully so). NVIDIA drivers are hard enough just to keep working under linux.

Hi Phr0stByte - what actually happens on your desktop machine though, is there still a core dump when you run it there, or does the rest of MoI show up except for the 3D viewport display?

What happens on your desktop system if you edit the MainWindowLayout.xml file as described previously here: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=4409.25 does that make the rest of the UI come up without the viewports or still not?

- Michael

Actually, never mind! I just got the nVidia mismatch sorted out and MoI v3 beta is working! Hurry up and start selling it! :)