Moi and Ubuntu  1-20  21-40  41-60  …  101-103

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 From:  Roger (ROGER_WEGENER)
4409.1 
Michael,

Have been trying to move from Windows to Linux for some time but one application - MoI keeps me tethered to Microsoft. I just can't do without it.

But recently I managed to get MoI 2 running with Wine under Ubuntu 11.04 - and it seems to be fully functional except for the UI icons and images. The attached screen shot shows the effect.

Now this is probably because I have not installed one of the required DLL's. I will continue to experiment but thought that you might have a few ideas about where to start looking.

Roger


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 From:  Michael Gibson
4409.2 In reply to 4409.1 
Hi Roger - you should probably be able to get the icons working too, if you tell WINE to use the "native" gdiplus.dll (the one that is installed alongside moi.exe) instead of its replacement one. Its replacement version doesn't seem to handle scaling properly, and for a while now they've made their replacement one used by default.

Try this - do a "wine regedit" to pull up the WINE registry editor, then go to this registry key (add any sub-keys as needed):

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Wine\AppDefaults\MoI.exe\DllOverrides

Inside of that DllOverrides key put a string value named "gdiplus" with a value of "n" .

An n in that spot means "use native dll instead of wine's replacement version".

Does that then work better?


That will get set automatically by MoI v3 when it sees that it is running under WINE and also for MoI v3 you won't need to do any winetricks at all to install IE or anything like that anymore.

The trickiest part seems to be getting a good video driver that gives you 3D acceleration without being buggy. A lot of the video drivers for Linux seem to be pretty unstable.

- Michael
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 From:  Roger (ROGER_WEGENER)
4409.3 
Great - it all works brilliantly. Thanks for your help.

Here is one of my boats running in MoI v2.0 using Wine under Ubuntu 11.04.

Love it.

Roger
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 From:  Michael Gibson
4409.4 In reply to 4409.3 
That's great Roger - by the way what video card do you have, did you install a driver for it?

- Michael
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 From:  Roger (ROGER_WEGENER)
4409.5 In reply to 4409.4 
Michael,

No special video driver was installed - the machine is a Dell Studio notebook with 15" screen - and the video card is on the MB - just installed Ubuntu and then Wine and then played around with the DLL's to see what I needed to get MoI to work. Updating gdi as you advised got everything else to work fine.

I looked at VM's and Emulators and even VNC but this is the best solution for me because it involves native DLL's and not much extra software complexity. Plus Linux is lean and mean and fast to boot - which is what I need most of all. Wonder if Steve Ballmer is going to do a Windows Lite one day ;-)

And impressively MoI seems to be as fast as it was under Windows - I was expecting some speed penalty but doesn't seem to be any. This is the last app that I needed to move across. Everything else I need has a Linux equivalent. Oh except for one other older specialist app that just stopped working a month or so ago after *some* Windows Update stuff arrived - and that also runs beautifully under Wine. I am going to rebuild that to a native Linux app when I get some time.

If you can make V3 install and work seamlessly under Wine then that will be nearly as good as going *native*.

Actually this really does look as though it will eliminate the need for a Linux port. I will report back after I have hammered it for a while to see if there are any weaknesses.

Regards,

Roger
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 From:  Michael Gibson
4409.6 In reply to 4409.5 
Hi Roger, that's great that it's working well for you so far!

Yes, one nice thing about how WINE works is that it loads a windows program's code and executes the code directly, so that makes it run fast and with pretty low overhead.

But the one issue that you may run into is that if you didn't install any video driver you are probably running under the software OpenGL stack where all the 3D display stuff is being calculated by the CPU instead of actually using the video card's GPU. That can tend to be quite a bit slower than using the GPU.

But that ship that you showed a screenshot of looks complex enough to be a good test - if that seems to display quickly enough when you're rotating the view around then you should be set I think.

One way you can tell if you're using software-only OpenGL instead of actually using your GPU is if you run MoI from a terminal window, by cd'ing to the MoI program folder and using the command line:
wine moi.exe

That will spew out some various information in the terminal and if it say something like "warning using Mesa software only OpenGL, no hardware acceleration available" or something along those lines then that means that you're not ending up using the GPU.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
4409.7 In reply to 4409.5 
Hi Roger,

> If you can make V3 install and work seamlessly under Wine
> then that will be nearly as good as going *native*.

And yes - with MoI v3 running under WINE is easier - you don't have to install any additional things like IE, just the stock core WINE install with no extras is fine and it automatically adds that registry key that is needed to make the icons work.

From my testing, the only difficult part can be getting a good quality and stable video driver installed so that the hardware accelerated GPU can be used - from what I can tell that seems to be the main problem that may be encountered with running under Linux.

- Michael
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 From:  Chyman
4409.8 In reply to 4409.5 
Awesome!!! That's what I was looking for, very encouraging! Thank you, Roger.
I would love to get this to work on my Mac too. I will give it another try...
Could you give some more details?
What Wine version did you install on your Ubuntu?
What version of IE and DirectX did you use in Wine?
Did you follow the instructions of a certain How To?

Thanks, for this wonderful news!
Chyman
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 From:  Roger (ROGER_WEGENER)
4409.9 In reply to 4409.8 
Hi Chyman,

Just used the latest version of everything. Under Winetricks this is reported as:

* d3dx_43
* gdiplus
* ie8

And this also drags in some other dependencies.

The unfortunate thing is that the documentation is not very complete or clear - so you *may* have to experiment to get the right configuration. I spent an hour or so testing various configurations until I found one that worked.

And it works great. Very pleased with Linux (Ubuntu) and now I can use MoI as well - instead of going through the frustrating dual-boot cycle.

Sounds like Michael has the whole thing sorted with the V3 release so minimal Wine config is required.

Roger
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 From:  Roger (ROGER_WEGENER)
4409.10 
Michael,

Using "wine MoI.exe" under the command prompt does generate lots of messages as follows;

efixme:actctx:parse_depend_manifests Could not find dependent assembly L"Microsoft.Windows.Common-Controls" (6.0.0.0)
fixme:system:SetProcessDPIAware stub!
fixme:win:EnumDisplayDevicesW ((null),0,0xe4f7a4,0x00000000), stub!
fixme:heap:HeapSetInformation 0x110000 0 0xe4f4d8 4
fixme:advapi:RegisterTraceGuidsW (0x638962c3, 0x63ab1058, {ffdb9886-80f3-4540-aa8b-b85192217ddf}, 1, 0xe4f120, (null), (null), 0x63ab1058,)
fixme:advapi:RegisterTraceGuidsW (0x638964fa, 0x63aae200, {0cfe0455-93ba-440d-a3fe-553973d0b723}, 1, 0xe4f104, (null), (null), 0x63aae208,)
fixme:advapi:RegisterTraceGuidsW (0x638964fa, 0x63aae220, {797fabac-7b58-4796-b924-d51178a59ce4}, 1, 0xe4f104, (null), (null), 0x63aae228,)
fixme:advapi:RegisterTraceGuidsW (0x638962c3, 0x63ab1088, {9e3b3947-ca5d-4614-91a2-7b624e0e7244}, 1, 0xe4f120, (null), (null), 0x63ab1088,)
err:ntdll:NtQueryInformationToken Unhandled Token Information class 18!
err:ntdll:NtQueryInformationToken Unhandled Token Information class 18!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5512, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5513, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -726, flags 0x2!
fixme:msimtf:DllGetClassObject ({50d5107a-d278-4871-8989-f4ceaaf59cfc} {00000001-0000-0000-c000-000000000046} 0xe4f6e0)
err:ole:apartment_getclassobject DllGetClassObject returned error 0x80040111
err:ole:CoGetClassObject no class object {50d5107a-d278-4871-8989-f4ceaaf59cfc} could be created for context 0x401
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5512, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5513, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -726, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5512, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5513, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -726, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5512, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5513, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -726, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5512, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5513, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -726, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5512, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5513, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -726, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5512, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5513, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -726, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5512, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5513, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -726, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5512, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5513, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -726, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5512, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5501, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5513, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -726, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id -5502, flags 0x2!
err:ole:ITypeInfo_fnInvoke did not find member id
…[Message Truncated]

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 From:  Michael Gibson
4409.11 In reply to 4409.10 
Hi Roger, so all that stuff is pretty much just ignorable, and there doesn't seem to be any message in there about software only 3D operation so I guess you're probably running with accelerated 3D which is good!

- Michael
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 From:  Roger (ROGER_WEGENER)
4409.12 In reply to 4409.11 
Yes - I just found some info that says it is running the ATI proprietary FGLRX Graphics Driver. Must install that when it needs to.

Thanks for your help.

Roger
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 From:  Chyman
4409.13 In reply to 4409.9 
Hi Roger, thanks for the information, that'll be helpful. I will give it a try.

Greetings,
Chyman
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 From:  Michael Gibson
4409.14 In reply to 4409.12 
I wonder if ATI has a better Linux driver than nVidia - I seemed to have some difficulty getting a reliable nVidia driver set up on one machine that I was testing with.

Anyway Roger, it would be great to hear if you run into any problems after running MoI like that for a while - hopefully you will be all set though!

- Michael
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 From:  Chyman
4409.15 In reply to 4409.9 
Unfortunately my tests with a Debian Linux notebook were not very successful...
I compiled wine-1.3.25 from source with all vital prerequisites and used
the winetricks suggested by Roger. When I start Moi I can see some of the
tool icons for the fraction of a second but then everything disappears
again...
I checked 2 OpenGL tests, one works OK and one exits similar to Moi.
I guess it is a GL problem, therefore I attach the wgl trace, perhaps
someone has an idea...

Thanks for taking a look,
Chyman

fixme:system:SetProcessDPIAware stub!
trace:wgl:wglGetProcAddress func: 'glAccum'
trace:wgl:X11DRV_WineGL_InitOpenglInfo GL version : 1.3 Mesa 6.5.1.
trace:wgl:X11DRV_WineGL_InitOpenglInfo GL renderer : Mesa DRI Intel(R) 852GM/855GM 20050225.
trace:wgl:X11DRV_WineGL_InitOpenglInfo GLX version : 1.2.
trace:wgl:X11DRV_WineGL_InitOpenglInfo Server GLX version : 1.2.
trace:wgl:X11DRV_WineGL_InitOpenglInfo Server GLX vendor: : SGI.
trace:wgl:X11DRV_WineGL_InitOpenglInfo Client GLX version : 1.4.
trace:wgl:X11DRV_WineGL_InitOpenglInfo Client GLX vendor: : SGI.
trace:wgl:X11DRV_WineGL_InitOpenglInfo Direct rendering enabled: True
trace:wgl:has_opengl GLX is up and running error_base = 131
trace:wgl:register_extension_string ''
trace:wgl:register_extension - 'wglGetIntegerv'
....
trace:wgl:X11DRV_wglMakeCurrent (0xab0,0x27b4990)
trace:wgl:ConvertPixelFormatWGLtoGLX Returning fmt_id=0x25 for iPixelFormat=3
trace:wgl:ConvertPixelFormatWGLtoGLX Number of returned pixelformats=16
trace:wgl:describeDrawable HDC 0xab0 has:
trace:wgl:describeDrawable - iPixelFormat 3
trace:wgl:describeDrawable - Drawable 0x2600656
trace:wgl:describeDrawable - FBCONFIG_ID 0x25
trace:wgl:describeDrawable - VISUAL_ID 0x25
trace:wgl:describeContext Context 0x27b4990 have (vis:0x7cb88f18):
trace:wgl:describeContext - FBCONFIG_ID 0x25
trace:wgl:describeContext - VISUAL_ID 0x25
trace:wgl:X11DRV_wglMakeCurrent make current for dis 0x7c46b8e0, drawable 0x2600656, ctx 0x7c9b1c58
X Error of failed request: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)
Major opcode of failed request: 128 (XFree86-DRI)
Minor opcode of failed request: 7 ()
Value in failed request: 0x2600655
Serial number of failed request: 7200
Current serial number in output stream: 7200
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 From:  Michael Gibson
4409.16 In reply to 4409.15 
Hi Chyman - that's probably the result of a buggy video driver. That seems to be the biggest problem with Linux - video drivers for 3D acceleration are very complex and many video card vendors don't seem to put that much effort into developing the drivers for Linux.

But that's probably the area you want to look at - try to find if there is a newer driver available or sometimes you may need to look for an older driver.

- Michael
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 From:  Chyman
4409.17 In reply to 4409.16 
Thanks Michael for taking a look, it is an older Intel graphics, there is not much activity on its driver unfortunately.
I just wanted to collect some experience before trying that on my Mac.
I may have another try with newer hardware next month.

Thanks again,
Chyman
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 From:  Michael Gibson
4409.18 In reply to 4409.17 
Hi Chyman, on the Mac the driver situation should not be a problem at least.

- Michael
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 From:  Roger (ROGER_WEGENER)
4409.19 
Michael,

Have been using MoI under Ubuntu on my Dell Notebook for a while now and the good news is that everything seems to work OK - and sometimes it is even as fast as a native Windows install.

The bad news is that there seems to be a usability/speed penalty around dragging and/or moving objects. So if I select an object in the model (say a line or a collection of lines) and then try to move them somewhere else within the model then I *sometimes* get a slowdown that is very frustrating.

I don't really know what is going on there - but it seems as though it might be something to do with Javascript. Am assuming in this config that MoI is using the IE Javascript engine?

And on first use it all seems to be OK but after a little bit of use it seems to slow down considerably - assume you will know (a) if it is a Javascript issue and (b) how to deal with it.

But other than that it all works as advertised.

Roger
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 From:  Michael Gibson
4409.20 In reply to 4409.19 
Hi Roger,

> Am assuming in this config that MoI is using the IE Javascript engine?

Yes - MoI v1 and v2 use the IE Javascript engine, called JScript.dll

This is changed for MoI v3 - MoI v3 uses the JavaScriptCore engine that is part of WebKit.

However, when you drag objects there is no JavaScript involved at all for that operation, it all happens in C++ code.

It's most likely to have something to do with the graphics display and the graphics driver, since moving objects causes a lot of screen redraws and heavy graphics usage during the move.

- Michael
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