There's only 1 developer (Michael), so chances are next to nil for a second code base at this time.

I am running Moi V2 under windows 7 in a Parallels VM and its runs perfectly.

Hi Robert, MoI v3 is a ways out yet - it won't be too much longer before the first beta release of v3 will be out, but then there will be quite a few beta releases before the v3 final release.

So I don't expect to have the final v3 version out until sometime next year.


> Will there be a Mac Version?

I don't really know yet. There is a chance but probably not very likely.

Some of the work that I've been doing in between v2 and v3 includes some of the steps that are needed to have a Mac version, but I'm not sure yet how many more pieces need to be in place to make that happen.

But I have at least made some progress towards that eventual goal.


> (If not VM suport?)

Yes, this works already, there are quite a few people running MoI v2 under either the Parallels or VMWare virtualization systems.

- Michael

Thanks very cool to have an answer.

The Mac Version would be outstanding for all who work on the Mac. Rhino is going to have V5 out soon for Mac. But I don't need Rhino.

Moi is way more interesting but VM is not the way to work. After a while you just stop using it and rather install Bootcamp on a 2th computer or get an old PC etc. Anyhow it's less fun to work.

So the question about your release.. well I just asked, I have some time and if I buy Moi I want to avoid buying an upgrade just a few month later.

What I love on Moi: I actually don't work much with Nurbs. But honestly Moi got the best Nurbs to Mesh converter I know off. Outstanding. Consider Moi bought just because of that. Hope you going to support Rhino V5 soon, as my clients may switch and I need to stay compatible.

Thanks Robert, I'm glad that you like MoI's mesh conversion mechanism!


> Hope you going to support Rhino V5 soon, as my clients may
> switch and I need to stay compatible.

For MoI v3 I expect to update the OpenNURBS library that MoI uses to the latest version, which I think should make MoI v3 compatible with Rhino v5 3DM files.

But currently to get a Rhino v5 file into MoI v2 you need to save it out from Rhino as a Rhino v4 file (same process to get it into Rhino v4 also).

- Michael

True.. but you know clients!

Anyway happy to see progress on Moi.. cool!

Hi Robert, I definitely agree it would be better for Rhino v5 to be compatible just "out of the box" with other apps.

You would need to ask McNeel why they decided to make Rhino v5 3DM files not compatible with v4 3DM files, I don't know why they decided to make that change.

- Michael

I think they adding a lot new stuff...

> I think they adding a lot new stuff...

Yeah but there is also a lot of old stuff as well, just regular stuff like lines, etc...

There are various extension mechanisms in 3DM files so that it is possible to add in new stuff that can just be skipped by older readers, while leaving regular old stuff still in place and accessible. But they did not decide to do it that way for v5, unlike the Rhino v3 to v4 transition.

- Michael

Probably the same reason Autodesk changes dwg format every 3 or so releases - to get more upgrade customers! ;-)

They say it is to add new features..., but I have my doubts. Granted some of the newer features get hosed when saving to an older version so, maybe the older file structure doesn't support it...

I also would love to see a native OS X version one day.

Just to run MoI on my Mac I did the unthinkable. I bought and installed VMWare and Windows 7. Everything went smoothly and MoI runs very well. Only some operations like e.g. the SWEEP command can take very, very long.

Working with MoI (even in virtualisation mode) is a real joy!

Try Bootcamp, it works better.

Yeah, a native OS X version one day would be really cool, I have tried the Moi demo on a company PC extensively, and, Moi is just great! Thanks Michael for all your dedication to this!

The overhead of maintaining a complete Windows installation (VM or Bootcamp) for just one application is quite big (especially for someone who dislikes Windows) and has kept me off from getting Moi immediately, although Moi could be the only one really worth it...

I am aware that Michael is doing all this on his own and I appreciate the move to Webkit as a platform independent base a lot. As I am also involved in software development, if v3 is out sometime next year and you Michael are looking at the possibility to build a OS X version, I would be super happy to contribute whatever I can, if that is helpful to you.

Until then keep up the good work! Best regards!

Yes ! Yes ! Yes !! Mac version !!!!!

;-)
;-)
;-)

You should buy a good OS like Windows, and then you have a great choice of CAD programs.

Rudl

Hi Chyman, thanks for the offer to help!

Right now one of the main things left to be seen is how robust the WINE system is in handling some of the remaining code in MoI that is Windows dependent, like Direct3D calls and COM interprocess marshalling.

If WINE handles those remaining areas well, it could be possible to use WineBottler (http://winebottler.kronenberg.org/) to produce a self contained OSX version.

The switch to run on Webkit eliminates the dependency on mshtml.dll, and mshtml.dll is not handled all that well by WINE. So I hope that having that dependency eliminated will make MoI much more amenable to running under WINE, some early tests were positive but I have yet to do a full analysis.

I'm getting pretty close to finishing the Webkit conversion, the only big piece left to do is the Scene Browser.

- Michael

I'm using MOI through VMware. It works perfectly. I am not building large files. If I were I would reboot through bootcamp. FYI, I am able to run MOI and Rhino through VMware.

-Dooki

Hi Michael,

you are welcome, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

I had a quick try of Codeweaver's Crossover a while ago and found it a nice way to go. To get DirectX up and running was not that easy, but it is possible.

I didn't know about WineBottler, it seems to go even 1 step further by allowing standalone applications, that is pretty cool! This way the appropriate set of dlls can be right included and thus non-technical people don't need to worry about the details of WINE and its configuration.

That sounds very promising, thank you for looking into this direction. And as said if there is something I can do, like testing or so, don't hesitate to let me know.

Kind regards,
Chyman

Hi Chyman,

> This way the appropriate set of dlls can be right included
> and thus non-technical people don't need to worry about
> the details of WINE and its configuration.

Yup, that's what the potential is anyway, but whether this works well or not depends on how robust WINE is in the particular remaining areas that MoI uses. But removing mshtml.dll from the equation gets rid of the biggest blocking area.

The other thing that would be good about using WINE is being able to run under WINE would also mean being able to run on Linux as well. With Linux it would probably rely on someone installing a WINE build for their particular distro.

I should be able to know more once I complete the full Webkit conversion and then run some tests.

- Michael

The other goal for the Webkit conversion is actually to help stabilize the Windows version as well. Right now since MoI depends on mshtml.dll if there is some kind of installation problem with IE (like some kind of manglement in the registry) it can mess things up for MoI. The new Webkit based version of MoI will distribute Webkit along with the MoI installation so it is much more self contained and less affected by mild registry corruption.

Also one other problem with mshtml.dll is that it gets updated to new versions pretty frequently when new versions of IE get installed, and it is not too unusual for there to be slight differences in behavior between some different versions, which is another source of instability.

It's taken me a lot longer than I had originally thought to do the conversion, but it should be worthwhile for the Windows version as well when it is done, just to have better long term stability.

There are also other parts to the conversion as well, like scripting in MoI is now handled by the JavaScriptCore library that is a part of Webkit, rather than using the Microsoft JScript.dll .

- Michael