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 From:  Jeff (USD5000000)
4244.1 
Hello Michael,

Don't know where to report "bugs" so I am creating this thread.

I use 2 monitors when I work. MOI runs in monitor #2. The program remembers the last x,y coordinate for the MOI window which is usually a good thing. Unfortunately, at work I have a different monitor and positioned on a different side. When I switch to the "other" set up MOI doesn't know that monitor #2 has switched sides and so the display is not visible. I have to switch the monitor to the other side, drag the window out of the old location and into monitor #1 and then flip monitor #2 back to my desired position and then drag the MOI window to my desired location. (Can you hear my huffing and puffing!)

If you can fix this minor "bug" in a future maintenance release it would be great.

Thanks,
Jeff
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 From:  BurrMan
4244.2 In reply to 4244.1 
Does this mean you are running MoI from a usb stick and then moving between 2 dual monitor setups that are configured in opposite, creates the launching to window issue?
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 From:  Michael Gibson
4244.3 In reply to 4244.1 
Hi Jeff, thanks for reporting this bug, I've added it to my list of things to fix up.

I guess you must be running MoI from a USB stick to run into this?

One thing you could do would be to not put the moi.ini file on the USB stick alongside of moi.exe - instead, get a moi.ini file with the settings in it that you want and then on each machine put it in the regular default location, which is:

On Windows XP:
C:\Documents and Settings\ [your user name] \Application Data\Moi\moi.ini.

On Windows 7 / Vista:
C:\Users\ [your user name] \AppData\Roaming\Moi\moi.ini

Then delete the moi.ini that you currently have alongside the moi.exe file on your USB stick.

This way the settings will be stored separately on each machine so the window location will not be carried along with you.


The other thing you could do would be to erase the window location setting from the moi.ini file before you launched moi - that might be easier than the monitor flipping stuff that you were doing before.

To do that, open up your moi.ini file in a text editor like notepad and find the [MainWindow] section (probably it will be at the very top of the file), and delete the line that says
Position=x,x,x,x

That's the line that stores the previous window position, and if it is removed then it will use a default window position instead.

You could also probably set the moi.ini file to be read only after removing that line so that you would not have to repeat that on every move. But that will also mean that settings won't stick if you alter them.


The way the position mechanism works, is that along with the position it stores the desktop resolution and later on when it goes to use the position it also checks the screen resolution to be sure that hasn't changed (if the resolution has changed it ignores the previously stored position), but I did not anticipate this situation that you're talking about where your overall desktop resolution did not change but just the arrangement of monitors did change.


- Michael
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 From:  Jeff (USD5000000)
4244.4 In reply to 4244.3 
Hello Gentlemen,

No, I'm not running from a USB stick.

- at home my monitor on the right of my notebook.

- at the office my monitor is to the left of my notebook.

Windows automatically knows this because they are two different makes.

I think the issue is that MOI doesn't check to see if position x,x,x,x is currently visible. Several program also don't do this check. Only a few catch this use case. ( I guess I'm weird... )

I'm new to 3D modelling. I hope I made the right choice. MOI seems to fit the type of work I want to start out with - hard surface stuff I want to CNC.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
4244.5 In reply to 4244.4 
Hi Jeff,

> I think the issue is that MOI doesn't check to see if
> position x,x,x,x is currently visible.

Yup, that is the problem. What it actually checks for is if your overall desktop resolution has changed from the time that the position was saved, and if it hasn't it just assumes that the position is valid.

But in your case you end up with the same overall desktop screen resolution between the 2 configurations, so it assumes that the previously stored window coordinates will be ok, but they aren't due to the different monitor arrangement.

I should be able to figure out something like a script that you could run that will solve the problem for time being, let me see what I can cook up.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
4244.6 In reply to 4244.4 
Hi Jeff, here is a solution for you for now.

Download the attached 2 files and copy them into your MoI installation folder.

Then instead of running MoI.exe directly, you instead want to start things up by running the Launch.cmd file.

That will run a small script that throws away the saved position from the moi.ini file, and then starts up MoI.exe. Since MoI will not then see any saved position information it will start up in a default location and should avoid needing to do any of that monitor shuffling that you were describing.

Please let me know if this does not work for you.

- Michael

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 From:  Jeff (USD5000000)
4244.7 In reply to 4244.6 
Thanks Michael. I'll start up the program with your scripts. BTW, I really appreciate how responsive you are to everyone's inquiries, problems, ....

A lot of my initial frustration with using MOI seemed to be surrounding the process and limitations of nurbs modelling. Is there a quick start guide to the thinking/modelling process? I think if I think in terms similar to CNC it may be the right approach. i.e. take a slab, dimension it, carve/trim off what's not wanted and then add in detail (fillets, ...) Also, what the recommended process is to do these things. i.e. I found out I can't just draw curves on two sides of a solid, loft them then boolean trim them. It took me a LONG time to figure out that this confuses CAD software. Now I know that I make a larger trimming surface and use that to trim the solid.

Also, what would be a simple program to learn polygon modelling? Is this related to "box" modelling that I see mentioned? Is box-modelling taking a polygon-modeled box and deforming it?

Sorry for the long-winded email. Riding the learning curve is sometimes a frustrating experience.

Jeff
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
4244.8 In reply to 4244.7 
In poly modeling you will have not the precision of a nurbs modeler in Booleean operation or geometric construction!
A circle is not a circle, a sphere is not a sphere :)

After all depend of what do you want modelise
The more easy modeler (and free) is google sketchup !
Same ergonomy than Moi so a very speedy curve learning!
After one hour you can modelise anything (except human anatomy) :)
http://sketchup.google.com/intl/en/index.html
< Is box-modelling taking a polygon-modeled box and deforming it?
yes Google sketchup can do this :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPbb8PPGtVg
Fredo Scale by Fredo6 a crazzy French guy : a must of plugin! ;)


If you want make some organic thing try Sculptris (free)
Perfect for human anatomy
http://www.sculptris.com/

Have fun modeling! :)

EDITED: 5 May 2011 by PILOU

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 From:  Michael Gibson
4244.9 In reply to 4244.7 
Hi Jeff,

> Is there a quick start guide to the thinking/modelling process?

The best quick start guide are the video tutorials here:
http://moi3d.com/2.0/docs/tutorials.htm

Those do a step-by-step walkthrough for building a few simple models so you can see the overall strategy.

There's also an overview of the process on the introduction page here:
http://moi3d.com/2.0/docs/moi_introduction.htm


> I think if I think in terms similar to CNC it may be the right
> approach. i.e. take a slab, dimension it, carve/trim off what's
> not wanted and then add in detail (fillets, ...)

Yup, that's a pretty good way to think of it - although sometimes instead of only carving a piece you may model things as separate pieces and use boolean union to fuse them together into one new solid piece.

And also sometimes your "slab" can have somewhat different shapes, like for something that looks like a lathe result use Revolve to build the base form for that, something that's kind of tubular following a path use Sweep.


> Also, what the recommended process is to do these things.
> i.e. I found out I can't just draw curves on two sides of a
> solid, loft them then boolean trim them.

If you want to have a surface cut a solid into pieces, you need to make sure the surface is wide enough to actually divide the solid into 2 completely separate pieces.

If your surface does not actually cross the entire solid, then it would only cut kind of an infinitely thin slot in it instead of actually dividing it into different solid chunks, is that the kind of thing that you're asking about here? If you happen to have the model file that you are talking about if you could post that it would help to give you some more specific advice about that particular situation.


> Also, what would be a simple program to learn polygon modelling?

Try Silo: http://www.nevercenter.com/


> Is this related to "box" modelling that I see mentioned?

Yes, box modeling is one kind of strategy for polygon modeling.

 

> Is box-modelling taking a polygon-modeled box and deforming it?

Yup, that's correct. It starts with a box, then depending on what you want some pieces may be divided and some faces punched out to make protruding pieces, then the process repeated. Then the whole shape gets smoothed out by applying subdivision smoothing, which kind of takes the rough polygon cage and makes a melted down smooth result from it.

That process is somewhat more like sculpting where you're kind of pushing and pulling on a 3D cage to form your shape. It works best for more organic type shapes.

The process in MoI is kind of more like drawing where you're focused more on drawing curves and constructing pieces of your model from those profile curves. This works best for more mechanical type shapes.

- Michael

EDITED: 5 May 2011 by MICHAEL GIBSON

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 From:  Jeff (USD5000000)
4244.10 In reply to 4244.8 
Thanks guys for the newbie advice.

Yes, I know that nurbs is best for hard-surface stuff I'm going to work on first. I'm just trying to understand the field and looking ahead to the day when I want to model something organic like anatomy. In the real world I like sculpting and carving so maybe someday I may find myself playing with Zbrush.

When I get a little farther I'm going to start asking or searching the forums about realistic rendering. Just a warning!

Thanks again.

Jeff
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 From:  Michael Gibson
4244.11 In reply to 4244.10 
Hi Jeff,

> In the real world I like sculpting and carving so maybe
> someday I may find myself playing with Zbrush.

Yup, that style of brush-stroke-based deformation modeling is probably even closer to sculpting than box modeling.

There is a free and easy to use similar kind of tool called Sculptris which you may want to experiment with: http://www.sculptris.com/

- Michael
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 From:  Jeff (USD5000000)
4244.12 In reply to 4244.8 
Guys, Thanks for pointing me to sculptris! It's amazing! It's what I imagined 3d sculpting should be like and I'm guessing other software (zbrush, mudbox, ...) are not similar. I don't have time to play with it much since I'm busy and trying to learn MOI in what little free time I have. One comment is that I'm guessing it would benefit a lot from using a wacom tablet. It was a little awkward trying to do some sculpting. I've never tried one a one.

Is there any benefit to using a wacom pen/tablet with MOI?
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 From:  Michael Gibson
4244.13 In reply to 4244.12 
Hi Jeff,

> Is there any benefit to using a wacom pen/tablet with MOI?

MoI does not make any use of pressure sensitivity so there isn't really anything along those lines that you would specially gain by using a tablet with MoI. The main plus would just be if you have spent a lot of time previously drawing with a pen or pencil and having something similar to that to grip and manipulate feels very natural to you.

MoI's tablet features are more about not doing things that normally get in the way of tablet use, like needing to touch the keyboard all the time or having too tiny of icons that are hard to hit with a stylus. But these features don't _require_ a tablet, they just avoid making things difficult for using a tablet.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
4244.14 In reply to 4244.12 
> Is there any benefit to using a wacom pen/tablet with MOI?
Some are when you are artist and draw with the Free curves functions ;)

Another one is when you are on on working buildings sites with some special latop with pen graphic
that is very confortable!

And last when you are along your swimming pool in a lounch chair for some artistic exploration with only your tablet like Cintiq ;)

It's a pure joy ;)
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery
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