Function Orient

 From: Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 30 Mar 2011  (1 of 19)
 Does this normal? Seems impossible to make a complet perpendicular following on a simple curve! And also curiously we must take another order of axis than the normal orientation X,Y,Z by default EDITED: 30 Mar 2011 by PILOU

 From: Michael Gibson 30 Mar 2011  (2 of 19)
 4157.2 In reply to 4157.1 Hi Pilou, I'm not really sure if I understand what you are describing - could you please post the model file so I could take a look at it? But the way that Orient works when positioned on a curve is that it puts the z axis of the positioned frame to be pointing towards the eye point. If that is opposite of what you need at any particular point, there is a "Flip aligned z axis" option that you can check which will reverse the z axis, it's available in the regular command options area here: Or you can also rotate the camera around to move the eye point to a different position, that will change which direction the positioned z axis will point towards since it points towards the eye point. It's also possible to rotate the axis frame after it is placed by 90 degrees or 180 degrees, you do that by dragging on one of the axis lines. > And also curiously we must take another order of axis > than the normal orientation X,Y,Z by default By default the source axis will try to orient itself to the object you click on also - that's to make it possible to align some object that is not necessarily itself oriented in the x/y/z axis directions, here's an example: So note there how that cylinder is not aligned to the world x,y or z axes, but orient works to position it since the base frame aligns itself to the normal of the cylinder's end cap plane? But if you want you can disable that, there is an "Align to objects" option and if you uncheck it the axis will be placed aligned to the regular x,y,z axis directions rather than adapting to the object's own directions: Do those options give you what you need? - Michael Attachments:

 From: Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 30 Mar 2011  (3 of 19)
 here the file :) so exact the same that the first post! It's not easy to find speedy the good orientation :) And I am not abble to slide the object on the single curve on only one move! It's turns on the middle or along the path! and it have not the same orientation than the object on the top of the surface! It's ok for object on the top curve surface, i have killed the original curve after it move Base of the object is at its middle front bottom And of course I want perpendicular position along the curve http://piloumaison.weebly.com/uploads/3/6/2/0/3620514/slide_on_curve.3dm EDITED: 30 Mar 2011 by PILOU

 From: Michael Gibson 30 Mar 2011  (4 of 19)
 4157.4 In reply to 4157.3 Hi Pilou, but it is pretty easy to find the view position - just position the view so that the curve is going more in one direction away from you, rather than looking at it as if it were a "U". For example, just move your view slightly over like this: With the view positioned in such a way you will get this kind of result: Also if the position is reversed at any particular point where you want to place it, just check that "Flip aligned z axis" option to reverse it - that should allow you to get the result you want in any particular view angle. If you want to place a large amount of copies along a curve, you might want to use the Transform > Array > Curve command instead though. - Michael Attachments:

 From: Michael Gibson 30 Mar 2011  (5 of 19)
 4157.5 In reply to 4157.3 Hi Pilou, also you wrote: > and it have not the same orientation than the > object on the top of the surface! I'm not sure what you mean by this part, could you please describe this one a bit more? Maybe if you showed me what result you were looking for it would help me to give you some more information on how to use Orient to get it. One thing to note is that you can adjust the base orientation by dragging the axis lines around so that you can get a specific orientation if the default one was not what you wanted. Here's an example: So note there that I want the final position to point the sharp corner point in the x axis direction. So in order to make that happen when placing the source position I drag the x axis line to point in that direction. When targeting a curve, the z axis of the tri-axis position widget is aligned to the tangent of the curve. So that means that you'll want to make sure the z axis of the source frame is pointing in the direction that you want to correspond with the curve tangent. I could probably give you some more specific advice if I knew what result you were trying to get though. - Michael

 From: Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 30 Mar 2011  (6 of 19)
 4157.6 In reply to 4157.4 Sure, I must training this part of the prog ! :) That I say by same orientation : if I take the same orientation of the orient function than my object that works on the top curve surface, that don't work for the single curve! That is curious that we must take some different regulate for a curve who have same position except a move displacement In the file , I want move my object like your cone :) I must find a tricky way for not have hesitate to choose the good orientation of the axe of the Orient tool! EDITED: 30 Mar 2011 by PILOU

 From: Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 30 Mar 2011  (7 of 19)
 OK I have found the good solution but I am totally perplex My object is on the ground The curve is on the ground The axis on the left corner are the default current axis of the curve + object I don't find any coherence between them and the good result axis found for have the object sliding perpendicular on the curve on the good position! I must make many try / error for find good result, and I am not satisfy of that I must miss something for an easy find! (always with the same previous file uploaded) EDITED: 30 Mar 2011 by PILOU

 From: Michael Gibson 30 Mar 2011  (8 of 19)
 4157.8 In reply to 4157.6 Hi Pilou, > if I take the same orientation of the orient function > than my object that works on the top curve surface, > that don't work for the single curve! You mean snapping on to the edge curve instead of snapping on to the independent curve object? Yes, that's normal to get different behavior between those cases - the edge curve knows that it is part of the surface and anything that snaps on to a surface aligns the target z axis frame to the surface normal. When you snap on to a curve that is not part of the surface it will instead align the z axis to the curve tangent. > That is curious that we must take some different regulate for a > curve who have same position except a move displacement The difference is that one belongs to a surface, and so the direction is aligned to the surface - the other one that does not belong to the surface does not have a surface normal to align to and instead aligns to the curve tangent. > In the file , I want move my object like your cone :) Just put the view into a similar direction as what I shown above and then it will behave like that - here is an example with your object: Is that what you want? But what is the final position that you want this object to have? If I knew the final result that you were looking for it would be easier for me to give you some steps that would give you that result. > I must find a tricky way for not have hesitate to choose > the good orientation of the axe of the Orient tool! Don't worry so much about what things look like while you just move the mouse around - just focus on the final spot where you wish to place the object, and if the position in that final place is reversed from what you need just click this checkbox here to flip it: - Michael Attachments:

 From: Michael Gibson 30 Mar 2011  (9 of 19)

 From: Michael Gibson 30 Mar 2011  (10 of 19)
 4157.10 In reply to 4157.7 Hi Pilou, so maybe some of your confusion with the 3D orient tool is that you're focusing on edges of your base object, but by default the primary thing that is actually aligned to is surface normals if the object being snapped on to is made up of surfaces. So for example placing the orientation picker x/y/z location to this spot here: The default thing that will be aligned with is actually this surface here: The yellow line here shows the surface normal direction of that yellow face: So that's the direction that by default will get mapped to the target position's z axis, and if you place the target position on to a standalone curve, the target position z axis will align with the curve tangent. If you wanted to align some other direction than that, you would need to adjust the base axis frame, you can do various things like rotate the an axis by 90 degrees around another axis until it has the orientation you want to use. But instead you may find the other Orient Line To Line command as mentioned above to be easier for cases where you want to position 2 things that start out all in the same plane. - Michael

 From: Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 30 Mar 2011  (11 of 19)
 4157.11 In reply to 4157.10 Thx for the detailed informations Sorry if i was not clear in my explanations The object was not in the good orientation in my previous file :( I was fumbling and deseperate to not find the good solution! (so the false image and file! :) (but thinking that is possible to start from any position to anotehr one --> perpendicular abode the curve) Object on the top curve surface is the result wanted So what must be the deductive reasoning for ovoid to test all orientation of the tripod axis :) Of course I will exam all your infos above! Here the new file! :) http://piloumaison.weebly.com/uploads/3/6/2/0/3620514/slide_on_curve1.3dm EDITED: 30 Mar 2011 by PILOU

 From: Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 30 Mar 2011  (12 of 19)
 Is that more clear? :) Of course the line / line with no Scaling is cool but i will whish to slide on the curve for some reasons :) EDITED: 30 Mar 2011 by PILOU

 From: Michael Gibson 30 Mar 2011  (13 of 19)
 4157.13 In reply to 4157.12 Hi Pilou, > Is that more clear? :) A little bit... :) > Of course the line / line with no Scaling is cool but > i will whish to slide on the curve for some reasons :) It is possible to get the slide along curve, but you have to position the source frame to the correct position so that it will map to the natural target location on the curve. The main thing to focus on is that whatever direction the z axis is pointing towards in the source orientation, will get mapped to the curve tangent direction in the target placement, since when snapping on to a curve the axis is placed with the z axis along the curve's tangent. So for example with your last image, if your source orientation is positioned with its z axis like this (z in red here): When the target position is placed on to the curve, that same direction will be mapped to the curve tangent, here the curve tangent shown in red: So the red line in the first image maps to the red line in the second image.... In other words, the z axis of the source position is what will end up matched to the z axis of the target position. Similarly the x axis of the source position matches to the xaxis of the target position and same with y. The reason why it is mapped in this way for default positions is that it makes it easy to position a planar curve perpendicular to a different path curve. But if the default mapping does not do what you want, you need to adjust the orientation by flipping some of the axis directions around instead of only using the default orientation. My advice is to not worry so much about getting the "slide along curve" motion just by itself - instead try to focus more on what final position you want to get as the end result. If you are focused on the final position more it means you can do some axis rotations on the target position to get the final position how you need it. I'm still not sure if you are able to get what you need now or not - doesn't the orient line to line tool give you an easier way to get the final position you wanted for your particular case? - Michael Attachments:

 From: Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 31 Mar 2011  (14 of 19)
 4157.14 In reply to 4157.13 < So for example with your last image, if your source orientation is positioned with its z axis like this (z in red here): This is my result of manually use the Function Orient! If you see on the image the little lift corner you will see the default orientation ;) The line/line is perfect for one position on the curve ! (little trick) just take the first point on middle on the baseline objet, the second anywhere to the end line base object, and you will have easily the postion on the curve with a perpandicular helpers line ;) And then call the normal orient for slide the object on the curve! Bingo! But, now , i have learning by heart the tripod position for arrive on a curve // on the ground for win a using step function! :) So now I am a little more strong for make video about the subject! Thx for the help and sorry for my unprecise first image! Just a question : does the last tripod of function "orient" position is memorised when you closed Moi?

 From: Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 31 Mar 2011  (15 of 19)
 And regulate the size of the tripod of the function Orient? In the moi Ini?

 From: Frenchy Pilou (PILOU) 31 Mar 2011  (16 of 19)
 and this one! I have all disable Snaps except "On", (because I want slide on the curve) in any menus, in any options But there is always trouble when I pass over the "ghost forms" of the original object position when I slide the object on the curve!!! How avoid that? If I make Alt, I am not more on the curve! :)