Beginners tutorials?
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
402.19 
Hi Michael
And what about this question
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=402.10 ?
I am anxious of the answer :)
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
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 From:  Michael Gibson
402.20 In reply to 402.19 
Oops sorry I missed that one Pilou, give me until tomorrow to answer that one - a quick overview is that there is a process where curves with different numbers of points get points added to them until they all have a common number, which is then the number that is used for the surface.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
402.21 In reply to 402.20 
Take your time, it's the week end! :)
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
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 From:  Michael Gibson
402.22 In reply to 402.10 
Hi Pilou, easy question first:

> Ps Have you a trick for input your numerous images inside the text except a
> Copy / Past address one by one from the download attachment section?

Nope, no trick other than copy/paste right now.


> About the number of control point in the case of a similar family curve than in your bath
> Seems that is not the same number for each curve
> What is the rule? Same number is better or that is no importance?

Well, I'm afraid that this explanation is rather complex, having a lot to do with specific details about NURBS. But here it is anyway....

You can get a cleaner surface if all the curves have the same structure. But there is more to a NURBS curve structure than just the number of control points, there is also a set of values called a "knot vector" which assigns an area and amount of influence that each control point has over the shape of the curve.

"Same structure" for 2 NURBS curves really means the same knot vector, not just same number of points.

If you create a curve by control points, it will get what is called a "uniform knot vector", which means each knot has the same spacing between them, for instance a sequence like 0.0, 0.5, 1.0 . So any 2 curves made by control points will have the same knot vector and therefore the same structure, and that means they combine together well into a surface without having any extra points needing to be inserted.

On the other hand if you create a curve by "Through points", it does not create a uniform knot vector, it creates a knot vector that is spaced different according to the distance between each points. So 2 "through points" curves with the same number of points do not generally share the same knot vector and therefore have different structures.

When you have curves with different structures that you want to combine into a surface there is an automatic method for combining the structures together called "knot insertion" - this inserts a knot value into each curve (also adding a control point for each knot inserted) until each curve has had all the differing knots from other curves added to it so they finally have equal knot vectors at the end.

The problem with this is that it means that the resulting surface sort of inherits the structure of all the curves added together, which in practical terms means it may have an awful lot of control points in it which can be bad. This increase in number of points is avoided if you use same-structure curves so that can be a good way to simplify things.

I do have some plans to work on some simplification and rebuilding of some of the curves when doing lofting that should help do some of this for you automatically.

Sorry that the explanation is so technical, I find this area hard to explain.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
402.23 In reply to 402.22 
Well well, Thx for this clear explanation :)
...that is that I have supposed :D
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
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 From:  Jesse
402.24 In reply to 402.23 
Hi Michael and Pilou,

Without consciously being aware of the particular mathematical concepts
of NURBS, I've found some practical methods to work within their "rules".

Here is my method for making surfaces (from lofts and sweeps)
which are smoother than those generated from individually drawn curves.

For lofts (and sweeps with multiple cross sections), I start out with a circle or
ellipse and shape it by scaling or moving groups of control points.

Then, I copy that curve as many times as needed to do the loft, shaping each curve by turning
on control points and using a combination of moving and scaling (1D or 2D) in symmetrical groupings
until the curve takes the desired shape. For me, it's a lot faster that drawing each one of them, individually.
I don't know how it affects the knot vector arrangement, but it seems to work pretty well.

Without a "Rebuild Curve" tool or the automated function such as Michael is planning
to put into the loft command, it seems like my best solution for now.


-Jesse
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 From:  Michael Gibson
402.25 In reply to 402.24 
Hi Jesse,

> I don't know how it affects the knot vector arrangement, but it seems to work pretty well.

Editing the location of control points does not change the knot vector, so this system works very well - following those steps that you mention, each curve shares exactly the same knot vector so they combine together into a surface very easily with no extra points needing to be added.

- Michael
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 From:  Citarra
402.26 In reply to 402.9 
Hello!

Thanks for making such a great tutorial!

Now to the problem ;p

I was following along well in it until it came to solidify the object. I did everything you said, but nothing happened. I am wondering if its user error (highly likely :D) or program error because of having a different (even newer??) version. My version says Jul-17-2007. Since I am brand new to this program I figure there is at least a little chance that this is a known bug with a quick fix so I had better ask while still trying to figure out what *I* did wrong.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!
Citarra
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 From:  Michael Gibson
402.27 In reply to 402.26 
Hi Citarra, do you mean it would not Shell? Shelling tends to be a fairly delicate operation, if you have any spots on your surface that bend around too tightly shelling tends to only work with small distances.

Can you please post the .3dm file with the surface in it that you are having a problem with? That will make it easier for me to check out what is going on.

You will probably have to alter the surface to be a little less bendy to make it work. Shelling in general is not really one of the most dependable functions in MoI right now, I need to collect up examples where it does not work well so that it can get improved.

- Michael
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 From:  jiro (MOIJIRO)
402.28 In reply to 402.27 
Any of you guys have or know where i can do a simple robot tutorial?
I finally downloaded the trial version and want to start on something simple
yet something sci-fi-ish since i have alot of drawings for a story in mind.
Thanks for any feedback Morriors
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
402.29 In reply to 402.28 
http://moi3d.com/1.0/docs/pod.htm

Have you looked at this one?

Brian
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 From:  jiro (MOIJIRO)
402.30 In reply to 402.29 
Thanks Brian. I will work on that now.
I'm looking for something simple but have ideas that are in the Wall-E/Old Japanese
style robots style in mind.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
402.31 In reply to 402.30 
Hi jiro - that tutorial that Brian mentioned and also the other 2 available here:
http://moi3d.com/1.0/docs/tutorials.htm

are probably the best place to start.

Although they are not specifically for robot construction, they give a beginning introduction to how MoI's basic tools work for constructing shapes. The same concepts that you learn from those tutorials should be applicable to building robots as well.

- Michael
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
402.32 In reply to 402.31 
Jiro
The attached are ideas of things that would be simple to make in MoI as "exercises" I think.
(I wish I had had MoI then!)
I have even made a radio and the hat like that in MoI since.

Have fun

Brian

EDITED: 31 Dec 2008 by BWTR

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 From:  jiro (MOIJIRO)
402.33 In reply to 402.31 
Cowboy Robots...cool Brian!
Thanks for those other tutorials Michael. I guess that is you
behind the mic. :) Very cool. I just finished a 5-legged Pod.
Great exercise in learning the fundamental tools and concepts.
I think i got the gyst of it. Use of revolve, sweep, paths, railing paths,
editing and moving points, arrays, fillets, and boolean.
I will go on to the other exercises tomorrow and review them.


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 From:  BurrMan
402.34 In reply to 402.33 
Do pods use steroids? I did not know that!
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 From:  jiro (MOIJIRO)
402.35 In reply to 402.34 
Absolutely!

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 From:  jiro (MOIJIRO)
402.36 In reply to 402.35 
Ok, did the next 2 tutorials. I'm enjoying this program alot Michael.
So user-friendly for the artist. What do you and everyone recommend now after the 3 tutorials?
I will review all 3 again, keep notes and make sure i get the overall concepts and tools. Thanks!




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 From:  Michael Gibson
402.37 In reply to 402.36 
Hi jiro, looks like you have been making progress!

There are some other tutorials available on the Resources page - from the main MoI home page (http://moi3d.com), click on the Resources link at the top and that will open a page that has a "Tutorials" section which lists some other tutorials that are available.

There are some videos made by Steph there that show construction of a couple of other objects, and Daniele's lamp tutorial and a few others.

But other than that, just think up some ideas and try making some of your own shapes using the same kind of techniques that were covered in those first 3 videos, is probably the best advice I could give.

- Michael
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