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 From:  3dcutter (JONMILLIGAN)
402.1 
Hi everyone,
I have been using 2d cad and graphics programs for a few years to produce files that work for CNC machining and I now want to produce some 3d work. I have tried various 3d programs but find it quite difficult to grasp some of the concepts. I have downloaded MOI and I quite like it, and it seems easy to work with. But it would be really good if there were some beginners "start from ground 0" tutorials on the various controls and methods, also, is there any more documentation ready yet?
Regards
John Milligan
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 From:  JTB
402.2 In reply to 402.1 
Welcome to the MoI community 3dcutter.
No, there is no tutorial or documentation ready but you are free to ask whatever you need. There are some very good Moi users and Michael Gibson, the programmer is always willing to help

Start using Moi and search previous posts, and you will find that somebody else had similar problems.
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
402.3 In reply to 402.1 
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery
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 From:  Michael Gibson
402.4 In reply to 402.1 
> also, is there any more documentation ready yet?

Hi John, sorry, no it's not ready yet. It is in progress but going rather slowly.

If you have an example model that you would like to try to create, if you can show me what it looks like (and hopefully if it is not too complex), I can do some steps for a mini tutorial on it right here in the forum though...

- Michael
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 From:  3dcutter (JONMILLIGAN)
402.5 In reply to 402.4 
Hi, thank you for your replys, the first project I have in mind is a domestic Japanese bath, short in length,but quite deep.(you sit in it and the water comes almost up to neck level!) I lived in Japan in the mid 80's and if you have back problems you cannot beat it. I want to model it, slice it, cut the model out of styrafoam and make a fibreglass mold. My back is hurting in anticpation of the finished product!
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 From:  Michael Gibson
402.6 In reply to 402.5 
> the first project I have in mind is a domestic Japanese bath

Can you post any example pictures?
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 From:  3dcutter (JONMILLIGAN)
402.7 In reply to 402.6 
Hi Michael. thank you for your reply, I enclose some specs and images for you to look at. Once more thanks for a great program and your interest! The images are not specific, just to give an idea of sizes and styles.
Regards
John Milligan

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 From:  Michael Gibson
402.8 In reply to 402.7 
Later tonight I'll try to put together some step-by-steps for that circular style one, I kind of like that one and I think it is a bit easier to do.

The basic approach will be to draw some curves, then loft them to make the main shape as a solid. Then shell to hollow it out and have some thickness to the walls, and then maybe a bit of trimming off the top to get some interesting angles and finally fillets on edges to round them all off.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
402.9 In reply to 402.7 
Ok - here's a Japanese bathtub beginners tutorial!

I'll try to give some commentary along the way, so I guess it is a bit verbose.

Make sure you have the latest beta release, version Feb-9-2007.

The first step will be to build the main shape - this will be done by drawing some curves and lofting them.

For drawing the curves, use the Draw curve / Freeform / Control points command. We'll draw half of the curve and then mirror it. When you draw half of something it is important to position the endpoints of the half exactly so that it will be nice when it mirrors. This means placing both the endpoint of the curve right on a line, and also having the second inside point of the curve come off perpendicular to that line. The position of the second inside point controls the ending tangent direction of the curve - if this is not perpendicular to the mirror line, you will have a sharp crease there which you often don't want.

The easiest way to line these things up is to use a feature called a "construction line". The way this works is that when you are inside a drawing command, you normally can click and release to tell the command to accept a new point. But if you click, hold down and drag instead of click and release, you will get a construction line instead - this provides a convenient snapping line for alignment.

So start the Draw curve / Freeform / Control points command. Switch the view to full-screen "Top" view by using the tabs in the bottom bar. Before placing the first point of the curve, click on the origin and drag out a construction line. Place the first point of the curve on the construction line, and then make sure the second one is snapped perpendicular off from it, this should look like this:



Continue placing points, and make sure the last one is snapped perpendicular back down to that construction line:



Now repeat this to draw some other curves - each of these curves is going to become a cross-section of the main bath shape when we loft them, we will be moving them up vertically from one another in just a bit.

If the old curves are getting in your way, you can move it off to the side or select it and use Edit/Hide to temporary hide it from view.

Here I have drawn 3 curves - I just did these pretty quickly, you may want to spend some more time doing this a bit more carefully because the shapes of these curves will directly effect the shape of the bath. Also you can adjust the points of a curve by selecting it and using Edit/Show pts. But be careful to keep the 2nd inside points perpendicular to the axis line if you move stuff around. I want to have the bath kind of slope out a bit so that's why they get longer:



Then I'll tell you what - let's not mirror these yet, let's loft them first and the mirror the lofted surface because it will be easier to edit the surface by tweaking just this half-curve. If we mirrored and joined the curve right now before lofting if we wanted to edit the resulting full curve it would be a bit of a pain to keep it symmetrical, you would have to use scaling on both points on either side of the axis.

So that means the next step is to move the curves to different elevations to prepare for lofting. The smallest one will stay at the bottom to be the base.

There are a couple of ways to move the other curves to different elevations - one way is to use the Split view, and select the curve you want to move in the top view, and then switch to the front view and click on it and drag it upwards. It is also possible to do it inside the 3D view if you drag and move nearby the vertical "z" tracking line, which is what I did here because I like seeing the proportions of working directly in the 3D view pretty often. Note - you need to have "Straight snap" enabled for a lot of this stuff to work, that means that the text "Straight snap" on the bottom toolbar should have an orange highlight on it indicating that it is active. If you have clicked this at some prior point to turn off straight snaps then a bunch of the perpendicular type things won't be happening. You normally want to leave Straight snap and Object snap turned on to provide for precise placement of points. Sometimes you may want to place something in a freeform manner and the snaps might get in your way - that's when you would temporarily turn them off.

Here is what they look like after arranging them in elevation - I have spaced them so that there will be more of a curve near the bottom portion. You can use more curves to get more control, but using too many curves tends to make things wiggly unless you have them arranged just exactly right, so it can be a good idea to use fewer curves here. But maybe one more wouldn't be bad.



Now it's time to build a surface from those curves - there are a variety of different tools for constructing surfaces from curves, in this case we will use Construct / Loft - select those 3 curves, do Construct / Loft, and push "Done", or right-click in a viewport. You can right-click inside a viewport or push the Enter key as different shortcuts for pushing the "Done" button. A lot of commands have different options that you can change or tweak, and you push "Done" to signal that you are finished tweaking things and want to accept the current result and exit the command.

When you are not inside of a command, you are inside of "selection mode" - you use selection mode to select objects and after you have built up your selection you then launch a command that will work on that selection. You can also drag objects and points in selection mode to manipulate them.

Anyway, so we just did a loft so this is what it looks like:



After that select the lofted surface and do Transform/Mirror, pick the 2 endpoints of the bottom curve to get this:




Right now if you were to edit one of those 3 curves that were lofted, the lofted surface will update. We want the mirrored surface to update as well though, and this is possible to turn on by selecting the mirrored surface and using Edit / History / Enable update. By default the results of a mirror don't automatically update when its original object is edited, because this can be kind of surprising for some simple drawing and drafting situations (maybe I should revisit this though). But using Edit / History / Enable update turns the update on. This is good because now the shape can be modified easily - if you manipulate any of the 3 curves (you can drag the entire curve, including changing elevation, or turn on points and manipulate individual points), the loft will update, and then the mirror that is built from the loft will update as well.

This is the point at which the shape is the most tweakable and editable, so if you want to adjust the shape, this is the spot where you want to do that. The next stages after this will break the connection between the curves and the objects. So you probably should save off this version of the model somewhere so you can come back and tweak it more later on if you want. This is not a bad area to s
…[Message Truncated]

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
402.10 In reply to 402.9 
Hi Michael : cool foaming tut indeed ! :)
About the number of control point in the case of a similar family curve than in your bath
Seems that is not the same number for each curve
What is the rule? Same number is better or that is no importance?

Ps Have you a trick for input your numerous images inside the text except a Copy / Past address one by one from the download attachment section?


---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery

EDITED: 16 Feb 2007 by PILOU

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 From:  3dcutter (JONMILLIGAN)
402.11 In reply to 402.9 
Thanks very much for the tutorial Michael, Its nearly midnight here so I will try it out tomorrow morning. I thank you for your speedy reply and tutorial.
Regards
John
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 From:  3dcutter (JONMILLIGAN)
402.12 In reply to 402.11 
O K I couldn't go to bed, I had to play,but I am having trouble getting a planar surface on top of the model? I enclose the file. Like I said, its late and I didnt spend much time in finessing the shape!
Regards
John
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 From:  JTB
402.13 In reply to 402.12 

Here it is... It is not a planar surface, it is a sweep. I draw a small line, and I go sweep and I choose two rails, the two curves of the upper surface. (This can be done by highligting them, copy,paste).
Here it is

EDITED: 19 Mar 2007 by JTB

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
402.14 

@JTB and 3Dcutter :)
Seems the middle junction of the mirror function (?) has something wrong !
It's peaked sharpened ;)
"Edges lines" are not aligned !

---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery
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 From:  Grendel
402.15 
Here is a timelapse of a quick tub like you attached, I hope this helps. Just make sure when you create the interior bottom there is an angle towards the drain since your going to make a mold of this.


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 From:  Michael Gibson
402.16 In reply to 402.12 
> I had to play,but I am having trouble getting a planar surface on top of the model?

Hi John, if you switch to the front view and take a look you can see that the top edge isn't planar / flat - it's got a bit of a wave to it. When you were adjusting points at some point you must have pulled one up or down in z a bit, this is easy to do when you are moving them in the 3D view, you sort of need to watch what the label says on the straight snap line that comes out - if it says "z", then you are moving in elevation. If this is getting in your way, you might turn straight snap off while you are doing adjustments.

You can line them up to be planar again by turning on control points for the curve, selecting all the points and then using Transform/Align and switch to the front view and pick in there - a horizontal alignment in the front view will make them flat. Let me know if you want more details on this step.

Or as JTB showed, you can use a different technique to fill in the top even though it is not planar.

But that looks like a good first attempt, that is some progress! You can also see that your 2nd inner points did not stay perpendicular to the axis line - that is why the shape has a crease in it at the mirror line. These can be lined up with each other by also using Transform/Align - go to the top view and use a horizontal or vertical alignment on the 2 ends points.

Let me now if you need any more details about any step!

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
402.17 In reply to 402.16 
Some more bath ideas - I thought it might be nice to try and carve out a sort of scalloped area for a shoulder/arm type rest. I started with a cylinder, and rotated it into place, kind of stretched it out into an squished ellipse using Transform / Scale / Scale 1d. But it wasn't quite what I wanted, so I duplicated the ellipse edges of the cylinder by doing a drill-in selection to select the edges, then doing copy/paste (you can also do ctrl+drag to duplicate objects, but copy/paste is good when you want to leave them in the exact same position).

Then I made some duplicates of them with ctrl+drag, rotated them with Transform / Rotate / Rotate axis, scaled them around a bit to get these curves:



Then lofted those to make a weird solid slug:



Then boolean difference that slug from the main bath (which I rebuilt again without fillets - usually you want to leave filleting for the end), then filleted after the boolean, to get this:



So this might give you some other ideas on other possibilities - you can create more solids and use boolean difference to cut into your main shape. If you want to make something that sticks out from your main shape, you model a solid for it and then use boolean union to merge it.

I'm not sure if the proportions are very good on this, I'd recommend having a type of rough mannequin type model in there so you can get some idea where arms and legs are going to go in relation to the model, it might be a good idea to have something like that from pretty early on.

- Michael

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 From:  Michael Gibson
402.18 In reply to 402.17 
Oh, and there is usually more than one way to go about doing something - above Grendel shows a different approach where he models more the cross-section of the thickness of the tub instead.

There is no one "right" way, but basically the area that you are most interested in controlling will guide you to where you want to draw your curves to begin your construction.

But still the basic common approach is to draw some curves to define some key areas of your shape, then surface them.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
402.19 
Hi Michael
And what about this question
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=402.10 ?
I am anxious of the answer :)
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery
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 From:  Michael Gibson
402.20 In reply to 402.19 
Oops sorry I missed that one Pilou, give me until tomorrow to answer that one - a quick overview is that there is a process where curves with different numbers of points get points added to them until they all have a common number, which is then the number that is used for the surface.

- Michael
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