You were right Michael,

Closing that top allowed the file to be exported in stp format and opened in TC as one unit. This will be an important bit of info to remember.

Don

Hi Don, so that would seem to explain it - if TurboCAD encounters a STEP file that contains a set of joined surfaces that do not form a fully closed solid, it seems to explode them into individual surfaces.

So some of the tips in this other recent thread on generating STLs may be useful - there is an indicator in the object properties panel that will tell you whether a selected object is a fully closed solid or not:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=3897.8


Does TurboCAD not really have the concept in it of joined surfaces that do not form a solid? Does it have anything like a "Join" or "Stitch" or "Sew" type command that lets you glue together surfaces at their shared edges into connected pieces?

- Michael

Hi Michael,

You asked: Does TurboCAD not really have the concept in it of joined surfaces that do not form a solid? Does it have anything like a "Join" or "Stitch" or "Sew" type command that lets you glue together surfaces at their shared edges into connected pieces?

I must confess that I am not well versed on the technicalities of how TurboCAD does what it does. I know that it uses the ACIS engine and creates solids, but I have never really understood all of that. TurboCAD can use surfaces, but that term used in TC may mean something different than what others mean when they talk about surface modeling. The lower version of TurboCAD (that is Deluxe) is limited to what are called TC Surfaces and in this case that is a very limiting factor when it comes to modeling.

With regards to your last question. Yes, TurboCAD has all kinds of tools when it comes to Boolean Operations and Solid /Surface translations. Of course, all these tools work best on objects that were created right in TurboCAD.

I still think that MoI and TurboCAD will work well together, I just need to learn MoI a whole lot better - but that will take time. Even in the last couple days of our discussions I have learned so much. I will need to come to grips with how things are modeled in MoI as it appears to be quite different than how one models in TurboCAD.

Thanks for all your time.

I know I will have additional questions, but I will, of course, start new threads when needed.

Don

Wow, do I ever feel foolish. I just noticed that TurboCAD can open 3dm files directly. This will prove to be a real bonus.

Hi Don,

> TurboCAD can use surfaces, but that term used in TC
> may mean something different than what others mean
> when they talk about surface modeling.

The reason I was asking about that, was that it used to be pretty common for CAD programs to be oriented primarily on working with solids and individual surfaces were only used as a way to slice off a piece of a solid.

It could be possible that TurboCAD is set up along those lines - if so then that means that you'd want to make your object in MoI to be a fully closed solid before exporting it into TurboCAD if you wanted it to stay connected together over there.

MoI is what is sometimes called a "hybrid" modeler where you can work on surfaces that can then be glued together at their edges to form a solid (in MoI the Edit > Join command does this) , and also a solid can be broken down into individual separate surfaces (in MoI with Edit > Separate). In a hybrid modeler you can have an object that has several surfaces joined together into a connected piece but without it necessarily being a solid if it has some open edges on it.

A lot of programs that used to be focused just on handling solids (SolidWorks, etc..) have over time become hybrid systems.

- Michael

Hi all,

I showed previously the results in PDF format of bringing a MoI file into TurboCAD Pro by importing a SAT file from MoI to do a 2D drawing of the "Spider" in TurboCAD Pro. Here attached are PDF files of the same SAT model brought into ViaCAD 2D/3D and Alibre Pro trial. To me the SAT format file transfer from MoI to TurboCAD Pro, ViaCAD 2D/3D and Alibre seems to be the most flawless for performing other operations within the receiving CAD programs from MoI. Dimensions are not to the same features, but you should get the jist of it. File sizes are considerably different as well. Everyone can judge for themselves.

Michael T

I have to admit, despite my past encounter with the decisions made by Alibre with respect to how the company handled the ending of the Xpress package of the software, I truly think the combination of MoI and Alibre Expert will be something like Salvador Dali and Leonardo da Vinci living in the same time period and hanging out together (that's a good thing, for those who don't understand this :-)

I hope that Michael G. and Alibre continue with good fortune into the future.

Michael T.

Hi Michael G. and Max,

When I export a STEP 203 (not an Alibre .stp) or SAT file from Alibre and import into MoI, the model is scaled down 10 times from its original size. Is there a setting I am missing? I have both MoI and Alibre units set at millimeters.

Michael T.

Hi Michael T,

> Is there a setting I am missing?

Not that I know of, I think what you are trying is supposed to work.

Could you please post a simple example model like a box in both STEP and SAT formats that has this problem so I can take a look at what is happening when it is opened in MoI?

Also are you using the File / Open command to bring it into MoI or the File / Import command?

The difference between those 2 commands is that "opening" a file brings in all the settings from the file as well such as its unit settings. If you do an "import" of a file into MoI on the other hand, that merges the file with the current model instead of just replacing the current model.

- Michael

Hi Michael T,

Please try this settings. :)

Hi Michael G.

I am attaching a zip file that contains both STEP and SAT files. I did try Import and Open. The results were the same.

Michael T.

Hi Ralf-S,

I do have set to that.

Thanks,

Michael T.

Hi Michael T - the problem seems to be that the files written from Alibre are stored as centimeter units in the file. Maybe there is some export option in Alibre that controls what units are used to export the file separate from the units currently used in modeling?

When I open your SAT file in MoI, you can see that it is read in centimeters, the units are displayed in the coordinate controls in the bottom toolbar here:



So if you want to use millimeters as your units instead of centimeters, after loading the SAT file go to Options > General > Unit system, and change the Unit system option there to say "Unit system: Millimeters". You'll also want the checkbox for "Scale on unit system change" under the Unit options (the button right next to the units dropdown, the dialog that Ralf was showing above) to be enabled so that your model scales to the same proportions in mm when you switch the units. Also you'll probably want that second option "Scale when importing different units" to also be enabled, that will make the Import command scale imported geometry to maintain its physical unit size.

For the STEP format import, MoI did not seem to be able to read the units setting from the file at all in that case, I'll need to examine that to see why. So after reading in the STEP file the units in MoI are set to "No unit system". To fix this up you will need to set the units twice in a row - first change it from "No unit system" to centimeters. This will not scale the model but it will get your unit system to centimeters to match what was in the file. Then set the units a second time to mm and then the switch from cm to mm will scale your object up and you'll have what you need.

So for either case, you just need to go to the Unit system option in MoI and set it (twice for the STEP file first to cm and then to mm) and that should solve the problem. Please let me know if that does not solve the issue for you.


You may want to check in the Alibre export options though to see if there is some option that is set that is making it export files using centimeters as the units in the exported file.


- Michael

Thanks Michael G. I'll check it out and let you know.

Michael T.

Hi Michael G.

I could not find any settings in Alibre for STEP export, but I imported the same Alibre AP 203 Step file into ViacAD, TurboCAD Pro and IronCAD's Inovate and they all came in correct to scale in millimeters.

The steps you showed me earlier work fine, but my concern is that if someone were to receive a STEP or SAT file from Alibre and open it in MoI without paying attention, they could be heading for disaster downstream. Normally I would be working in the reverse, bringing MoI data into Alibre, but I wanted reference geometry for a test when I discovered this.

I'll go ahead and try the other import/export file types between Alibre and MoI and let you know what I find out.

Michael T.

Hi MichaelT - if I open up the STEP file in Rhino, I get units set to cm in there.

Also if you open up the STEP file in a text editor like notepad, you can actually scroll down and see that the units seem to be set to centimeters, this is the relevant part of the file:

#99=(
LENGTH_UNIT()
NAMED_UNIT(*)
SI_UNIT(.CENTI.,.METRE.)
);

There seems to be some problem in MoI's STEP importer that is not reading in that units setting properly though. I'll explore this some and find out if this can be fixed, it may be something that needs to be fixed by the author of the import libraries that MoI uses.


> but I imported the same Alibre AP 203 Step file into
> ViacAD, TurboCAD Pro and IronCAD's Inovate and they
> all came in correct to scale in millimeters.

They seem to be converting from the centimeter units that are actually set in the file into mm.

I guess that those systems are working more like MoI's import command where the units setting retains its current setting when opening that file and instead the imported file is scaled to convert into the current unit system, rather than the current unit system actually getting set to what was in the file.


> if someone were to receive a STEP or SAT file from Alibre
> and open it in MoI without paying attention, they could be
> heading for disaster downstream.

Actually the SAT file seems to be working fine as far as units go - when you open the file up in MoI you get the units set to cm with the part in the proper size in centimeters.

I also double checked the SAT file by directly loading it into notepad as well, and in its header it is marked as having the units in the file as cm as well - the setting for that is not as easy to see as the STEP file one, it comes from the 3rd line in the file which says:

10 9.9999999999999995e-007 1e-010

The 10 there at the front of that line means that each numeric unit in the file represents 10mm , or in other words the numbers stored in the file are stored as centimeters.

- Michael

Hi Michael T - I also did a couple of simple tests with some basic shapes like a box out of Alibre and into MoI using STEP format, and these tests seem to bring the unit setting (in cm) over into MoI ok.

So there seems to be some problem dealing with something in your specific model, it seems to be having some problem with the cylinder piece on it and I guess that may be causing an error during the import process which makes it not get to handle reading in the units setting as it is supposed to.

Could you also give a try with a simple shape like a box to verify that works ok?

I've sent your STEP file to the author of the import libraries that MoI uses to ask why the units are not read in for that particular case, he may be able to figure out what is going wrong.


You may also want to try IGES format for getting your model over.


Thanks,
- Michael

Hello, new member here.

Just to add to this thread.
I am a freelance design draughtsman and have been using Alibre as my parametric modelling software for around 4 years and think it is excellent. Having used Inventor & Solidworks extensively I prefer to use Alibre for various reasons.

My surface modelling experience is limited having only experienced it in ACAD. Anyway I would just like too say I am completely hooked on MOI (only had it for a few days since the Alibre offer) it is easy to learn, has a great looking and simple interface giving excellent results.

Every credit to you Michael.... Brilliant !!
Thank you.

Alexander

Hi Michael G.,

I just had the same STEP file issue with a SolidWorks STEP file I downloaded from the web. I have attached it here. The same SAT file came in okay.

Just thought I would let you know.

Michael T.

Hi Alexander, thanks very much - I'm glad that you like MoI!

- Michael