Modeling Helmet ?

Next
 From:  Anis
3623.1 
Hi....

Currently I have some images of helmet and I want to create 3D model of those helmet base on some images reference.
I have tried some technique use loft, sweep and network. But still cant get good result.

I need your advice/trick on how to create this helmet...

Thanks !
Image Attachments:
Size: 1.8 MB, Downloaded: 34 times, Dimensions: 2816x1584px
Size: 1.9 MB, Downloaded: 30 times, Dimensions: 2816x1584px
Size: 2 MB, Downloaded: 22 times, Dimensions: 2816x1584px
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Anis
3623.2 In reply to 3623.1 
Here is the 3dm file, but sorry without image.
I want to upload the 3dm with images, but the file size is 12Mb and always failed to upload.

Thanks

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
3623.3 In reply to 3623.1 
Hi Anis, have you seen the helmet tutorial dones by lyes here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/messages.php?webtag=MOI&msg=2042.1

Also it seems that you posted a different tutorial here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=3500.1

Are you looking for some different technique than what was discussed in those previous posts?

One key thing is probably to not worry about the face cutout area at first, instead focus first on making a full dome shape and then trim or boolean out the face area rather than trying to incorporate that outline into the initial surfacing.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
3623.4 In reply to 3623.2 
Hi Anis - so looking at your curve framework there, you do seem to be trying to incorporate the opening for the face into your initial surface. Instead of that try to focus on making a more regular shaped full dome base surface. Also things like some small ridges can be added in by cutting out some portions, the steps that lyes showed in that previous link can be good for that.

Try to get a more simple smooth full surface first and then you will cut away some pieces and add details in small pieces to that, rather than trying to incorporate details into your base surface directly.

It also seems like a good case for doing control point modification of a sphere as shown in those previous approach as well.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Anis
3623.5 In reply to 3623.3 
Hi Michael...

Yes, I have take a look at Iyes's tutorial.
But my helmet is different :



Also, I want to create the helmet use curve and surface technique.
Thats why I have several curves on the 3dm file I posted before in this thread.
Attachments:

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
3623.6 In reply to 3623.5 
Hi Anis, I'm not sure if I understand fully - it seems that your helmet has a kind of ridge line in the area you have circled, and the one in lyes's tutorial also has some fairly similar looking ridge lines in it.

You don't need to incorporate those ridges or small features like that into the initial base surface that you create. It's probably better to build a totally smooth and simple structured base surface, and then trim out some spots where you want to add some features like that, the tutorial shows a good technique for adding in that kind of ridge using trimming and blend.

I understand that your helmet is not 100% identical to the one in the tutorial, but as far as I can tell it has a lot of similarities - you will just want to do things like cut a larger or smaller area with the trim, and adjust the bulge value of the blend to be less bunched up to make the differences in your particular helmet.

But why do you think you have such a different helmet that you need a completely different approach? I don't know a lot about helmets so I may just not understand why yours is so different, it seems very similar to me.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Anis
3623.7 In reply to 3623.6 
Hi Michael...

>> It's probably better to build a totally smooth and simple structured base surface
Yes I will try to making more natural basic curve first like image below :



>> need a completely different approach?
I am not come from polygon mesh modeler.
I have SWX background that usually work with some construction curves and sketch to get the final result.
Sometime freeform more difficult for me...

Thanks
Attachments:

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
3623.8 In reply to 3623.7 
Hi Anis, so think of your base shape following more like the blue ink here:



Then later to make that ridge line you will cut something like this area out and put in some new surfaces in there, probably with Blend:




For using surfacing tools for the initial shape, you will probably want to use something like Revolve or Rail Revolve, as those give the most natural kind of revolved or domed type surface shapes with nice shaping at the "pole" areas. It's otherwise quite difficult with other surfacing commands to make a pleasant smooth dome shape at the point where all the curves collapse together.


- Michael

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Anis
3623.9 In reply to 3623.8 
Hi Michael....

>>>so think of your base shape following more like the blue ink here:
>>>Then later to make that ridge line you will cut something like this area out and put in some new surfaces in there
I am not thinking about this idea before, good idea..., I have to try...

Here is result from make larger curve then use blend.
But yes, the pole area is not smooth. Open the 3dm file.


  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Anis
3623.10 In reply to 3623.8 
Hi Michael...

>>>you will probably want to use something like Revolve or Rail Revolve
I am not sure we can use those features. Because of :

Attachments:

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
3623.11 In reply to 3623.9 
Hi Anis, what method are you using for creating the surfaces?

Was that done by creating completely separate surfaces for each quadrant?

Creating surfaces separately like that will rarely give you a nice smooth result between the individual pieces, you need to create the surfaces in larger sheets to make them smooth.

Please see this previous post for an example:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=1398.19


If you have something that is close to the shape you want though, you could try trimming back some space between the pieces and putting in surface blends to connect them up.

But the best way to get a nice shape at the pole is to use Revolve or rail revolve.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
3623.12 In reply to 3623.10 
Hi Anis,

> I am not sure we can use those features. Because of :

You just use Revolve or Rail revolve as the starting point, you then turn on surface control points and modify them to refine the shape and put some bulges or whatever where you need them.

I believe the lyes tutorial linked to earlier covers that - in that case he started with a sphere but instead of starting with a sphere you can start with your own surface of revolution created from Revolve or Rail revolve.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
3623.13 In reply to 3623.9 
Hi Anis, also if your curves do not meet each other smoothly at the pole area where they touch, that not help make things smooth. It looks like you have some end tangents of the curves not aligned to each other like this:






You want to have curves meet up in a shared tangent, which means having the end and first inside control points of each curve all on the same line.

Otherwise it means your curves are already starting out not smooth to one another.

- Michael

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
3623.14 In reply to 3623.9 
Hi Anis, so here's an example of how you could get a better surface from your particular curve layout.

I aligned the control points at the tip and also note that I added a circle in there which tends to help to even out the shaping of the tip to make it more proportioned to a dome as it comes together to the pole.

Also note that you should select all the curves and make 1 single big network for the whole thing instead of doing it in separate pieces.


But if you make it by modifying surface control points of a surface of revolution (as in lyes example), that will tend to give the best smooth quality.


- Michael
Attachments:

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Anis
3623.15 In reply to 3623.13 
Hi Michael...

>> It looks like you have some end tangents of the curves not aligned to each other
a ha..., I am not aware about that...

I dont want use freeform technique that Iyes show on his tutorial.
I will stay to use curve strategy.

Regarding Network, is it possible to move the seam edge, because it will interfere when I use Blend like Iyes tutorial ?
Image Attachments:
Size: 93.4 KB, Downloaded: 11 times, Dimensions: 466x468px
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
3623.16 
Seems videos Lyes Helmet are not yet working ? :(
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
3623.17 In reply to 3623.15 
Hi Anis,

> I dont want use freeform technique that Iyes show on his tutorial.
> I will stay to use curve strategy.

Just be aware that there are some potential difficulties with the strategy you have chosen then...


> Regarding Network, is it possible to move the seam edge,

It will end up reflecting the seams in the closed curves that are used as inputs into the network.

Try rotating the circle by 90 degrees around its own center point, that should then put the seam in a better place for you.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Anis
3623.18 In reply to 3623.17 
Hi Michael...

>> Just be aware that there are some potential difficulties with the strategy you have chosen then
Yes, I am aware. But it give me challenge and push me to find best idea and best construction geometry.
Curve strategy is more "mechanical way" for me and more accurate.

>>Try rotating the circle by 90 degrees
Yes it work...

Thanks
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
 From:  Kevin De Smet (KEV_BOY)
3623.19 In reply to 3623.3 
Michael,

"One key thing is probably to not worry about the face cutout area at first, instead focus first on making a full dome shape and then trim or boolean out the face area rather than trying to incorporate that outline into the initial surfacing."

In this kind of model that's again so very true, haha, before you said this and I looked at the helmet I was already thinking "pffff, ok so i would lay a patch there, and there and then intersect and trim..."
I'm using Solidworks today but come from a poly background, and let me tell you, it never truly goes away! ;)
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged
 

Reply to All Reply to All