Just looking for input without spending 2 weeks trying to research.

Is there any difference in the actual results from these 2 programs. On the outside, they both seem to be "sculpting programs", like doing clay work. (Lets leave out all the other features and things they may do and just refer to the sculpting part, as thats what I'm interested in)

I dont need too much detail, just more like, "Well, essentially they are the same and both produce sculpted results"....Or "Completely different as Voxels are different then (WHatever zbrush uses) and they dont do or produce the same thing.

Thanks for any help...

Hi Burr (sorry I have read Zbrush againt Moi :) so See the next post :D

ZBrush is completly different !
That is "polygon" modeler (who manage (maybe the only one) millions, billions of them) in real time!
So you can have incredible precision detail of volumes that will very difficult to obtain with a Nurbs modeler!
Try to have that ;) and it's not a zoom!
By Marc Boulay


How do you think to process for obtain same result? ;)
That will be a task ! Each pores, furs, ...it's not geometry, it's natural thing ;)

Here a zoom ;)

Hi Burr
First I have learning that Zbrush use also "Voxels" when it make an "unified skin" above a volume!
But user don't see it and don't know it ! :)

Difference between the 2 progs is now, a more fludidity use of fonctions during modeling for Zbrush, more natural and speedy!
A more geometric possibility functions use for 3Dcoat ! You have curves!
They are measures inside 3Dcoat! And more accurate for hard Sculpting and Box modeling!
Better tools of Retopology

Learning curve is more speedy for 3D coat (as more traditional UI)

If you are artist Zbrush, if you are engineer 3D Coat :)

So Zbrush can do all 3DCoat can do, but 3DCoat cant do all what Zbrush can do ?

BTW, how about comparing both of them to Blender ?

Blender can make many more than the 2 others :)
You have real animation, creating games, physics engine, post production etc ;)
It's free (big advantage) but the learning curve is some difficult! ;)


< So Zbrush can do all 3DCoat can do, but 3DCoat cant do all what Zbrush can do ?
No see my post above for major differences ;)

Hi Pilou,

> If you are artist Zbrush, if you are engineer 3D Coat :)
BTW I have tried several times to learn Blender and 3DCoat.
But until today, I cant follow those application. Hard to use... :(

We cant compare it to NURBS application like MoI3D, ACAD, SWX and others...
NURBS always more easy to use. I am curious why ?

Hi Anis
No! Try Sculptris ;) the more easy 3D sculpt at this day ;) But Only for sculptor and sculpting for the moment!
http://drpetter.se/project_sculpt.html

Nurbs is geometry, you can use it without know to "draw"!"
Polygon 3D sculpting is more manual ! And program are in general like gaz engine :)
Artistic thinking is needed"

PS I have forgotten Sketchup, http://sketchup.google.com/intl/en/
i believe that you love it, it's same easy ergonomy than Moi ;)
Maybe more easy it's box modeling but you can make some crazzy thing with it ;) (you can make subdivision with plugin)
see this artist ;) (without subdivision)
http://browse.deviantart.com/?q=ixlrlxi&order=9&offset=0 5 pages!!!

> If you are artist Zbrush, if you are engineer 3D Coat :)

That comparrison is quite crazy I feel.
3D Coat is most certainly an artists programme and would drive an engineer mad!

They are very much similar programmes but no doubt 3DC, currently, has features not yet in Z Brush--and 3DC is better priced.

Brian

Hi Pilou,

Sculptris looks similar to this one : http://www.cbmodelpro.com/
I will stop my self to look at polygon mesh modeling, its so hard :(

Yes, I know Sketchup.
Its polygon, but its different.
Usually people use it to create "hard" model, not organic model.
Also the UI is Windows / Microsoft Style.
So its more easy to use.

Are you expert ( daily use ) in polygon modeling software today ?

< 3D Coat is most certainly an artists programme and would drive an engineer mad!
An engineer who want to make some artistic things will be less destabilized with 3D Coat ;)

About CBmodelpro
Not sure that it is so speedy and precise than Sculptris ;)

> Are you expert ( daily use ) in polygon modeling software today ?
My case is some special :)
I have translated, Zbrush, 3D Coat, Sculptris, and many plugs of Sketchup :)
And curiously Moi also ;)

So I know them and theirs users and theirs conceptors ;)

< polygon mesh modeling, its so hard :(
As I said above, for using polygons (organic models )you must have artist's feeling!
Anybody can't sculpt this without knowlege of anatomy ;)
And after if the UI is some hard it's not very easy, you must be "hooked" by a prog!
And after maybe 5 years minimum (if you are gifted) to feel good with it and make anything you want ;)

PS In general artists make first a box modeling low poly in their polys favorite prog then refine it inside Zbrush
(this can be make inside Zbrush too with the crazzy sytem of Zphere + Zketch)

by Dan Crossland with (Maya low poly) refine Zbrush

If you don't want sculpt (because you don't know or not pass to many time to make that) but want to use some organic models, you can use program like Poser (not free) or "Make human" (free) http://www.makehuman.org/

I know this is not what you asked (dont you hate that about the internet, everyone wants to put $0.02 in, but they rarely answer your 'A or B', choose ONE, question?) but Sculptris is definitely the easiest thing to just pick up, use, and get something done, if it meets your needs.

Hi BurrMan,

The gear is made in Moi and exported as an .stl file.
3d-Coat fills this mesh up with voxels(3d Pixels).
The axle is a cylinder modeled with 3d-Coat which is considered a primitive shape.

The Rabbit is made with the use of a Wacom bamboo fun tablet(a must)
Then in the retopo room you can apply a mesh on top of the shape.
I personally use this mesh in T-Splines for Rhino,because it is much faster in this
way to model organic shapes.

3d-Coat is a great program,the only minus is the lack of good measuring tools.
It needs a lot of practice with a tablet
Example: importing an 100 mm sphere.stl in Rhino,needs to be scaled down.

Hi Burr, well fundamentally yes they are both sculpting programs that work in a generally similar way (applying brush strokes to modify objects) and producing similar kinds of output.

They are not clones of each other though, there are some various different specific functions in each one.

ZBrush has a somewhat unusual UI so you will probably have a higher learning curve with it.

If you're interested in the sculpting aspect you should definitely check out the new Sculptris program, it's free and is really easy to use. It's probably something that you would sculpt an object from scratch starting from a sphere or something within the program itself though, it's not as focused on modifying some already existing object that may contain sharp edges in it.


What is your overall goal, are you trying to sculpt some totally organic shape, or are you trying to add details to an existing model?

- Michael

Thanks for all the info..Thanks frenchy for laying that out.

It kindof sounds like they are basically similar with regard to sculpting....

I have sculpturis. Great program. I was looking for a stepup though....

Michael,
I am interseted in the organic addition to some mechanical models. SO something like make a box with lid and then scribble around on the top of the lid. Create effects that would normally be just a bump map to render, but now actual "geometry" I can toolpath. 3D relief by hand so to speak. The 3d coat will most likely be my choice. It outputs the result as "STL" which my CAM package can import and toolpath. My CAM package doesnt work with OBJ and I dont want to have to start trying to convert poly's to NURBS.

(The next revolution: Sculptris for NURBS!!! Can you imagine seeing a car drive down the raod with warts and snakes all over it??? Buwahahaha!)

I suppose I should load the demo, but I think I read that the demos dont save anything. Can these packages control the poly dicing the way that MoI Can? or is the STL going to be basic faceted. (Most likely will just need to learn how to dice it up with the program)...Thats probably the main aspect of my purchase with it....If the STL wil be a good result for machining. I've seen an STL produce good results from Shapeways with my MoI model, but....Thats MoI and a different process of printing...

SO a question would be: If I make a nice NURBS model in MoI, then add some texture to one of the surfaces in 3dcoat and export as stl, what is the quality, or do I have control of the quality of the resulting stl surface as a michinable surface trying to replicate smooth stuff...

@Burr
Limitations of the 3D-Coat demo version:
-all export functions are disabled
-limitation on quantity of layers per object, maximum 7 layers allowed
-maximum texture size is 2048x2048

but!!!...
Demo version is fully functional during 30 days !!!
http://www.3d-coat.com/download/

Hi Burr,

> Can these packages control the poly dicing the way that MoI Can?

In some cases you are working directly with polygons, so you have a really high density polygon soup that then has the polygons modified.

3D Coat's voxel editing mode does have something where you convert from voxels to sub-d surfaces I think, and then you can probably adjust the density of the final output polygons created from the sub-d smoothing process.


> SO a question would be: If I make a nice NURBS model in MoI, then
> add some texture to one of the surfaces in 3dcoat and export as stl,
> what is the quality, or do I have control of the quality of the resulting
> stl surface as a michinable surface trying to replicate smooth stuff...

Well, the whole purpose of these sculpting programs is to produce an organic looking shape, and organic objects are made up of smooth looking surfaces. So they generally have a focus in them for dicing up polygons to make enough of them so that things look like they are smooth.


From what you described you would probably want to go with 3D-Coat.


- Michael

Thanks Frenchy and Michael.....:)

Hi Burr,

By the sounds of things, what your wanting to do is not dissimilar to what I'm doing with jewellery models.

I bought 3D-Coat for the same reasons as you describe, but I'm still learning what's the best workflow with it.
Typically I've been exporting from MoI as an OBJ file & then importing it into 3DC within the Voxel Room.
This converts the OBJ into a Voxel & you can do what ever sculpting you want from there.

The newer versions of 3D-Coat now allow you to reduce the mesh when your doing the Export.
In my case this proved to be essential as my CAM program for milling had a limit to what the model size could be.

I'm also now using Sculptris & think of it in a similar way to how I see MoI...
...it's got a simple UI that allows you to just be creative.
And the Sculptris models will import just fine into the 3DC Voxel Room too.

HTH, Colin

The reduction of polygons in Zbrush ;) video
http://www.pixologic.com/zclassroom/homeroom/tutorial.php?lesson=decimation-master