try that ;) moi@moi3d.com
Or send PM in the forum itself ;) http://moi3d.com/forum/user_profile.php?webtag=MOI&uid=1

Hi Radiance, I hope you get some sleep at some point! It's not good to go too long without...

> michael -> can i contact you via email or something ?

Certainly! Feel free to contact me at moi@moi3d.com like Pilou wrote.

- Michael

Thought I would remember Michaels expertise is Graphics! CAD came after... :o

Just following along here...

Michael and Radiance should team up :)
Both are living coding gods hehe

I hope to see a lot of MoI users using Octane as their renderer engine
That make so much sense, combine a perfect Nurbs modeler and render product viz with Octane

Nice to see the progress

Sam

Doesnt sound like the MG way though....Releasing a product with such top level bugs! Maybe the match is not quite suited....:o

Yeah right
But MoI is older hehe

Anyway I use both and I love'em :)

Michael worked on MoI for "4YEARS" before he released it. There is a lesson there for many.

In any case octane is still in beta. So is not yet released. And the stability of Moi beta is "unique" in the world of software.
I'm not yet an owner of Octane rendering but I'm serously thinking for render Moi object. If you have read the topic you can feel that radiance is doing all the possible for solve the issue. Autodesk had problem in importing OBJ files for YEARS, and after just include in their package the Guruware Importer. THAT'S NOT SERIOUS!

Autodesk suffer from their own size
Exactly like Microsoft

But Octane is small, and not made by a huge team, kinda like MoI
That's why its reacting so fast and listening to the users requests

Its the best scenario for softwares I think :)

I guess for me it's a charactor thing.

Cant change the name of "Beta". The software is being charged for. This is not Beta. (Back to the charactor thing)

I dont really want to be bashing though (unless you want to continue) This would be a topic for another forum.

Hi Burr,

There is a public beta version that is free that anywone can download and try, it is updated along developpement as well.
Octane allows renders which used to take many hours in minutes.

There is a private beta program costing half the "release" price, this one enables to save your projects.

This problem is rather specific to nurbs exports and generally doesn't hinder polygon model rendering.

Marc

Hi Marc,
My bad....I wasnt aware of the free one....Thanks for setting me straight.

Burr

Yes, basically it's a buy now before the price increase.

I invested in a license (as I do with a lot of software that I feel may become very good over time) in the hopes that it will be a great renderer for MoI and to also have in my toolkit something similar to all the grab an HDR, throw in your model and render a beauty shot kind of rendering apps that are on the market now.

Personally, I've always felt Michael is blessed as a software engineer who can release pretty much BUG FREE software without breaking a sweat; his betas are typically always production ready!

It's not fair to hold other programmers to that standard. ;-)

-Will

To be really fair, Michael should rename beta by point release. :P

Yes, but having the beta with new functionality, at the end you CANNOT return to the previous version!
Try to do some of your work now without the styles.....
And you upgrade, with pleasure.

>>>>>Personally, I've always felt Michael is blessed as a software engineer who can release pretty much BUG FREE software without breaking a sweat; his betas are typically always production ready!>>>>>

It's actually a respect thing. Michael works for YEARS on something before it is released. Respect for himself...AND me. He could have released MoI along time ago (for the money). V2 has been in beta and development for 2 YEARS! I suppose he could have released IT about, oh, say 2 YEARS AGO because he wanted another pile of money. (by the way, Michael, when you release V6, can I borrow 50 bucks? :O) But in the last 2 years there have been significant changes.

Michaels method is customer related. I have chosen to be a customer, and will upgrade at every release and continue to use it. In the meantime, I am ONLY using the beta. Dont even have V1 loaded anymore. I am confident I wont be shafted at some point and have to go back to V1! (where does this confidence come from?)

The other method will ALWAYS have you in bug ridden software, or on the OLD V1 version from a couple years ago. I have experienced this many times with softwares. It's a sure fire way to loose me as a customer because that is my only recourse.

I am not saying OCTANE is not good or promissing for you or any of that. Only a "pattern" that I personally recognize as poor and avoid. It's just an opinion.

I'm glad that some will have a good solution for this type of render for themselves.

Hi Burr, there are also some other practical aspects to it as well...

For example having a really high stability actually helps a lot to reduce tech support burden.

And having really stable beta releases helps a lot to get more people to use the beta, which has a lot of benefits - it helps bring out some remaining bugs to the surface and also getting people to use stuff earlier makes it more possible for me to gather feedback on the design too and make refinements.

So in a sense the big focus on stability actually helps me to be more efficient in many ways as well as being helpful for actual use as well.


But of course you have to start somewhere! It's harder to get stability in the earlier stages of a product before it has had a lot of exposure and use.

For most projects that 4-year incubation period is just not feasible because it is really hard to keep a business going for 4 years without making any income at all... That's a heavy expectation load to place on a startup, really.

- Michael

"Michaels method is customer related. I have chosen to be a customer, and will upgrade at every release and continue to use it. In the meantime, I am ONLY using the beta. Dont even have V1 loaded anymore. I am confident I wont be shafted at some point and have to go back to V1! (where does this confidence come from?)"

I first started messing around with computers in about 1979 with a Commodore PET and I've used quite a bit of software in between then and now. I agree with BurrMan that Michael is one of a select group of developers who focus on supporting customers and providing them with what they want and need (another that springs to mind is Tom Davis, the author of the Zoot 6 PIM). As a result MoI seems to have many enthusiastic and loyal users. It's a virtuous spiral and long may it continue...

Dan

>>>>>For most projects that 4-year incubation period is just not feasible because it is really hard to keep a business going for 4 years without making any income at all... That's a heavy expectation load to place on a startup, really.>>>>

You did it! The truth in this are the benefits you pointed out. In a "larger view" (Visionary) Your method will be FAR more cost effective, efficient, better product, Customer satifaction...etc, etc. The "other" company will be overbloated with a poor product and pay a heavy price in the end.

It really is careful thought and planning and takes a person with "Heart and Character" to think in this manner and plan this way. The "Hard Road" is not that at all. By far, in the end, the self respect will be exponentially more valuable.

I'll jump on that train every day of the week.

Hi Burr,

> You did it!

Yup, but I just barely squeaked by in many aspects.

I mean don't get me wrong I definitely agree that there are many long range benefits to my approach, that's why I do it! :)

But if you told every startup that they had to invest 4 years first without making any money, there would be a lot fewer that would even attempt it. That's a really harsh thing to _require_ before you would consider for any startup to be doing a good job.

Actually if I myself knew that it would have taken that long to get MoI v1 out the door, there is a good chance that I might not have attempted it either! My original plan when first starting up was to try and spend something more like one or one and a half years to get out v1.

- Michael