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 From:  radiance
3386.61 In reply to 3386.59 
i am aware of this.

i am parsing the vertices, vertex normals and vertex texcoords,
and you can index as many as you want.

the issue is that people are giving me models from moi3d that do not, as you say you do, multiple references to the same vertices with diffferent vertex normals.

Radiance
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 From:  PaQ
3386.62 In reply to 3386.60 
Hi Radiance,

That probably because Blender dont import the .obj properly. (a bit like Octane :P)
Looks like the best way to get the vertex normal right in Blender is using the .lwo with some custom blender script.

http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=979.1

But that doesn't mean .obj can't handle it, as it works with modo,c4d,maya ...

... I don't have a clue about blender stuffs.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3386.63 In reply to 3386.61 
Hi Radiance,

> the issue is that people are giving me models from moi3d that do
> not, as you say you do, multiple references to the same vertices
> with diffferent vertex normals.

That will depend on whether the "weld" option was used when exporting from MoI or not.

I would actually suggest to focus on the unwelded case first since that is more simple, that's when there is the same number of 3d, uv, and normal vertices and the faces reference the same index in each.

The cylinder case I posted above is unwelded, but it still does not render properly (in Octane that is, it renders properly in all other renderers), it shows seams between faces but if the vertex normals from the file were used to do the shading there should not be any seams present.

Maybe look for a bug where in some cases you're using the face normal instead of the vertex normals from the file.


I think your problem is that you are only accustomed to working with polygon mesh modeling program output, and in poly modelers it is more common to recalculate or modify the normals a lot (with smoothing groups, etc...) but you should not try to do such things with the output from a CAD program where the normals are actually coming from a more accurate NURBS model so if you manipulate them you are actually messing things up instead of fixing things.

- Michael
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 From:  radiance
3386.64 In reply to 3386.63 
finally ! :)

thanks for that michael, now it makes sense.

the model paq gave me had the weld option enabled i presume ?

i've been trying to solve the issue of people handing models to octane without duplicate vertex normals for angles.
I can actually render those welded models fine if i use the smoothgroups to define the interpolation boundaries of the given vertex normals, that's what i'm trying.

paq -> can you give me a version of the superball OBJ with the weld disabled then pls ?

if there are any residual normal interpolation issues with a propper model i need to investigate it. it could be due to the precision issue bug i fixed yesterday.

i just tried the cylinder model you gave me and that one renders fine, it has indeed got duplicate vertex normals on the cylinder edges at the top/bottom.

Radiance
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 From:  PaQ
3386.65 In reply to 3386.64 
Hi Radiance,

Here's the unweld version.

++

EDITED: 3 Dec 2015 by PAQ

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 From:  radiance
3386.66 In reply to 3386.65 
thanks ;)

time to go to bed. i'll work on it tomorrow.

Radiance
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3386.67 In reply to 3386.64 
Hi Radiance,

> if there are any residual normal interpolation issues with a propper model
> i need to investigate it. it could be due to the precision issue bug
> i fixed yesterday.

The precision issue was related to vertex normals?

Then yes maybe that was causing much of the problems.


> i just tried the cylinder model you gave me and that one renders fine, it
> has indeed got duplicate vertex normals on the cylinder edges at the
> top/bottom.

Yeah, if by duplicates you mean more than one normal that can happen to point in the same direction. Why is that significant for you?

But with the unwelded output, what it won't have is shared vertices, where 2 faces can have a single 3D point in common but have separate normals between them.

If you can get unwelded output to work properly, that would be a significant step, since MoI users could just uncheck that option when exporting to Octane.

- Michael
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 From:  radiance
3386.68 In reply to 3386.67 
shared vertices is not needed.

you can give 1 vertex and 10 vertex normals and then as much faces that reference it, my importer reads those fine.

the strangeness of it all is that models exported with 'high quality vertex normals' in the same moi3d like unwelded fashion render fine with octane, but not the moi ones.

anyways the cylinder you gave renders fine, no facets.
i will test the superball model in unwelded form.

i'm still finishing my vertex normal interpolation via smoothgroups option though, a lot of users have models that are 'welded' and have the usual shading artifacts.

anyways, that will be for tomorrow.

night night.

Radiance
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3386.69 In reply to 3386.68 
Hi Radiance,

> you can give 1 vertex and 10 vertex normals and then as much
> faces that reference it, my importer reads those fine.

Well it wasn't previously - earlier in this thread you can see just a welded box that doesn't work right. That's with an export from both MoI and Modo.

The part to remember is with CAD data you should not be manipulating the vertex normals in any way.

But even if there are problems with welded (shared points but different normals per face), it will be easy for MoI users to just only export unwelded to avoid that.

- Michael

EDITED: 28 Mar 2010 by MICHAEL GIBSON

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 From:  vodkamartini
3386.70 In reply to 3386.68 
Still sounds a little off, but I'm not sure where to expand on things at this point. I'm sure there will be further examples/dialogue in the coming days. Have a good night, Radiance.
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
3386.71 
Octane will be become the render tool of Moi :)
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery
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 From:  radiance
3386.72 In reply to 3386.71 
can't sleep...

michael -> can i contact you via email or something ?
can you send me a mail at info at refractivesoftware dot com ?

i've got some questions for you regarding integration.

Radiance
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
3386.73 
try that ;) moi@moi3d.com
Or send PM in the forum itself ;) http://moi3d.com/forum/user_profile.php?webtag=MOI&uid=1
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3386.74 In reply to 3386.72 
Hi Radiance, I hope you get some sleep at some point! It's not good to go too long without...

> michael -> can i contact you via email or something ?

Certainly! Feel free to contact me at moi@moi3d.com like Pilou wrote.

- Michael
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 From:  BurrMan
3386.75 In reply to 3386.74 
Thought I would remember Michaels expertise is Graphics! CAD came after... :o

Just following along here...
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 From:  Samuel Zeller
3386.76 In reply to 3386.75 
Michael and Radiance should team up :)
Both are living coding gods hehe

I hope to see a lot of MoI users using Octane as their renderer engine
That make so much sense, combine a perfect Nurbs modeler and render product viz with Octane

Nice to see the progress

Sam
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 From:  BurrMan
3386.77 In reply to 3386.76 
Doesnt sound like the MG way though....Releasing a product with such top level bugs! Maybe the match is not quite suited....:o
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 From:  Samuel Zeller
3386.78 In reply to 3386.77 
Yeah right
But MoI is older hehe

Anyway I use both and I love'em :)
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 From:  BurrMan
3386.79 In reply to 3386.78 
Michael worked on MoI for "4YEARS" before he released it. There is a lesson there for many.
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 From:  falcon76
3386.80 In reply to 3386.79 
In any case octane is still in beta. So is not yet released. And the stability of Moi beta is "unique" in the world of software.
I'm not yet an owner of Octane rendering but I'm serously thinking for render Moi object. If you have read the topic you can feel that radiance is doing all the possible for solve the issue. Autodesk had problem in importing OBJ files for YEARS, and after just include in their package the Guruware Importer. THAT'S NOT SERIOUS!
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