MoI as "the Visio of 3D?" Rendering advice please  1-4  5-24  25-44  45

Previous
Next
 From:  Dan (CORNYSH)
3310.5 In reply to 3310.4 
Thanks to Ralf and Phil for their suggestions - duly noted.

>How about just using MoI to render it?

BurrMan, this is kind of embarassing but I didn't realise that this was possible. Have I completely overlooked an entire facet of MoI? :-) Is this in the 2.0 beta; if so I must have a play with it.

May I ask you for a look at the model you created and perhaps a few words on how you approached it? It doesn't seem to have taken you much time to put together.

Cheers
Dan
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  BurrMan
3310.6 In reply to 3310.5 
Hi Dan,
It is the new lighting and Styles in MoI. I think it can be very appealing.

I didnt really make a plan. Just kindof hacked it out, but V2 has many advantages over the V1. It really isnt a beta. If you own the V1, you should be using V2.

Here's the file.



Not sure what you can see from this file though your welcome to use it. The features that made it so quick are in the new version. I basically did this with drag and drop snapping. I should have probably used the array tool to make it quick, but then I would have had to think.

There are some new array tools in the V2 that would allow me to do things more complex and just as fast. I could use the import part feature and make one molecule, then import 40 or 50 in about 2 minutes ( as fast as I could keyboard-click, keyboard-click.

Anyway,

Talk later

EDITED: 19 Jun 2012 by BURRMAN

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
3310.7 In reply to 3310.1 
Hi Dan, I'm glad that you like MoI's UI focus!

re: easy to use renderers - yes they do not seem to be as common as you might think, it tends to be more common for rendering to be part of some big package that does a zillion other things as well.

Some good suggestions above, and there was another renderers discussion not too long ago in this other thread:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=3136.1

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Dan (CORNYSH)
3310.8 In reply to 3310.7 
Michael, with BurrMan's kind example in front of me I managed to throw together a lattice in short order. The main "aha!" moment was when I was having difficult aligning the atoms with the "sticks"; I realised that using sticks sharpened like pencils at both ends (i.e. with cones on them) would allow me to place spheres very accurately at the intersection of the sticks. Once that was in place I simply used copy and snap and it made everything very easy. I'd even go as far as to say it was actually fun.

While the on-screen representation is OK, I think I need to play with the lights and other options further as my screenshot is not as pretty as the one BurrMan uploaded. Either that or keep looking for renderers - the thread to which you referred me was useful.

I have a question: the lattice is simple but there are many elements: 90 sticks and 60 atoms per lattice and I have two lattices plus in addition another couple of hundred atoms hanging around between lattices, a product of the array tool. This slows the PC down a little. Can I do anything to speed things up? For example, if I do a boolean union on the sticks (which presumably just touch each other at their points) and the atoms in the lattice, would that make life easier for MoI?

Thanks
Dan

Attachments:

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
3310.9 In reply to 3310.8 
Hi Dan,

> For example, if I do a boolean union on the sticks (which
> presumably just touch each other at their points) and the
> atoms in the lattice, would that make life easier for MoI?

Probably not from a display speed standpoint. Probably it would make things a bit more complex since when you do a boolean more edges are created and the geometry is somewhat more complex with more edges.


> Can I do anything to speed things up?

A couple of things - first you can adjust the display mesh density to be coarser. By default MoI creates a rather dense display mesh which looks nice but which generates a lot of polygons.

To reduce the display mesh density, go to Options > View > Meshing parameters, and set "Mesh angle" to a coarser angle like 20 degrees, and uncheck "Add detail to inflections". That will make for a somewhat rougher display on the screen but also reduce polygon count and speed things up.

Also drawing edges can tend to be more time consuming than surfaces, so you may want to hide all edges to get a display speed boost. In v2 you can do that quickly by going to the "Types" section in the Scene Browser, which lets you access all objects of a certain type in the model, like all solids, all curves, etc... - there is also an "Edges" entry there and if you click the little eye icon next to Edges it will hide all edges.

Also turn off the hidden-line display, that's available in v2 in the View palette - checkbox labeled "Display hidden lines".


If you do want to take a MoI screenshot as your render, it is possible to generate a higher resolution image to the clipboard. If you then shrink that down in an image editor it will tend to look nicer - check out this previous post for the higher res screenshot script:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=1049.5

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Dan (CORNYSH)
3310.10 In reply to 3310.9 
Michael, thanks for the tip for the screenshots, that works really well and the images are great.
I have experimented with the various display options and things are snappier now.

The model is looking good. For things like true transparency (i.e. not hiding faces) I will have to look at rendering but no worries.

Dan
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  BurrMan
3310.11 In reply to 3310.10 
Hi Dan,
In MoI V2 under the options view dialogue there is a lighting options button. The "Metalic lighting" changes things a bit. I think that is what you are seeing as the difference between mine and yours.

Looks good brother!

Another quick note on copy+draging things in MoI...If you hold down the Ctrl key and click and drag an object, it will drag out a copy from that. One step.

Many things you will find in MoI have been designed for 2-3 clicks = done!

EDITED: 11 Feb 2010 by BURRMAN

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  omac12
3310.12 In reply to 3310.1 
Hi, Dan
I'm entering a late entry for your rendering question. Apparently Bryce 5.5 free is still available. You download it from here: http://download.cnet.com/Bryce/3000-6677_4-10974201.html?tag=mncol and then you will have to register with Daz 3d for a serial. It's an old program, and it renders very slowly, but for your purposes it might be ideal. You would only need to learn how to move models, cameras and lights and apply materials since you will be modelling in MOI. Just another option.
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Marc (TELLIER)
3310.13 
Hi Dan,

I also include a lot of 3d stuff in my illustrations.
In many circumstances I don't have to use another renderer to do the job for simple projects.
With the new lightning options in V2, just a screenshot does the job.

Even for 2d drawings, Moi3d have superior snapping and great functions.
Tools like Booleans and Blend works in 2d.

Marc
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  WillBellJr
3310.14 
Yes, if you already have a license to v1, definitely start using the v2 beta - you're missing out on so many wonderful new features if you're not!


Also don't forget to use the array tools - it might be easier to select a single sphere and then using the array tools, specify how many copies you want and then set your direction.

I've never used it but I believe there's a grid array function also?


Enjoy!

-Will
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Dan (CORNYSH)
3310.15 In reply to 3310.14 
Thanks once again to all those who responded with advice and pointers - much appreciated and very heartening.
2.0 beta is indeed very nice.

Dan
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Michael Gibson
3310.16 In reply to 3310.15 
Hi Dan, just a quick note - there is a collection of all the v2 beta release notes available here:
http://kyticka.webzdarma.cz/3d/moi/doc/V2releasenotes.html

That contains all the notes on what is new in v2.

- Michael
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  BurrMan
3310.17 In reply to 3310.12 
>>>>>Hi, Dan
I'm entering a late entry for your rendering question. Apparently Bryce 5.5 free is still available. >>>>>>>.

I actually like Bryce also for certain materials. very mechanical/hard surface things can be done very well with Bryce.
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  BurrMan
3310.18 In reply to 3310.17 

EDITED: 19 Jun 2012 by BURRMAN

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
3310.19 In reply to 3310.18 
Cool !
Now with a DNA ;)
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  omac12
3310.20 In reply to 3310.19 
BurrMan, what was that animation rendered with?
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  omac12
3310.21 
BurrMan, what did you use to render that animation with? Also, my replying seems to be really messed up. I have to reply twice to get one that shows up ... weird.
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  Dan (CORNYSH)
3310.22 In reply to 3310.18 
Er, wow. How did you do that?!

I have just been playing with Keyshot, which is the only piece of software that has done what I wanted, namely load a model and immediately present me with a semi-rendered model with default lighting that looks OK and with dialogs that make sense to the man-in-the street as opposed to rendering experts. The issues I have so far are that the rendering is not as good as what I have managed to grudgingly dig out of Kerkythea and for $1,000 I need to be sure before I make a decision. On the other hand, I can't even work out how to move the ground plane in Kerkythea and my model is sitting stubbornly half-above, half-below the ground plane. Kerkythea is no Panacea.

Maxwell Render and Octane look impressive but are way too complex for somebody like me. If I can't mouse around and work out how something operates in a few minutes then for a casual user it's not worth it. The process for inserting models in Octane was so well-hidden I had to watch a video to find out how to do it. One for the enthusiasts I think, though I will keep an eye on it.

I was going to end on a huffy note and bitch and moan about the lack of decent rendering software for amateurs, but on reflection (cough) it is perhaps not surprising. For example, the only inexpensive and quick modeller I have yet found is MoI. Why? Perhaps there is no market because normal users vaguely understand that 3D is "hard" and expensive. Thus MoI is basically forging a new market for itself and that's probably a lonely and worrying place to be for a developer at times, though rewarding as well. In the same fashion, there are many free or cheap renderers but none seem to be simple to use for people like myself who, in essence, simply want a studio or softbox environment as a background to a central prop rather than photo-realism. Those renderers that do have this functionality seem to be fairly expensive and thus need a certain level of commitment, so the market for them doesn't expand.

I would say there's a niche in the market here for cheap, straightforward rendering. If we could clone Michael then we could put Michael2 to work on a rendering equivalent to MoI. After all, that's probably the way forward isn't it? 3D representations of the world are surely going to be a bigger part of our lives in 10 years and past experience with word processors, spreadsheets and databases suggests that graceful and useful dumbing down is a necessity for a larger market.

In the meantime, I continue my search...

Dan

PS the attached is not a rendered Keyshot image but is from the preview window. However, renders also display these slightly angular spheres, which suggests to me that I have one of the settings wrong... In Kerkythea I get nice round spheres, but embedded in the ground :-)

Attachments:

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  ycarry
3310.23 In reply to 3310.22 
Hi Dan

>I can't even work out how to move the ground plane in Kerkythea
>and my model is sitting stubbornly half-above, half-below the ground plane.

Simply use the 'put on ground' button: select object and you see it at right
in your case you maybe need to group all spheres before

Attachments:

  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged

Previous
Next
 From:  BurrMan
3310.24 In reply to 3310.20 
Hi Omac,
I used Carrara. The little MoI was post Carrara. Thats actually a conversion of the original, which "looks" a bit better, though the animation itself is a little goofy as the beta version of Carrara 8 kept trashing my settings and forcing me to start over. I actually started it with the beta of Bryce to show, since it was mentioned here. The render was looking nice, but the same with the trashing of my scene, so I gave up and did a quick one with Carrara version 7.

If I had a bit more time, I wanted to put the MoI man jumping around from molecule to molecule! The DNA was a nice suggestion.
  Reply Reply More Options
Post Options
Reply as PM Reply as PM
Print Print
Mark as unread Mark as unread
Relationship Relationship
IP Logged
 

Reply to All Reply to All

 

 
Show messages:  1-4  5-24  25-44  45