How to display all the icons at once

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 From:  rado
3248.1 
I reinstalled this program on my desktop after formatting and for the life of me I can't figure out how to get all of the icons on the right side of the screen to show up at once.

To clarify, I don't want to have to hit Construct / Transform, Draw Curve / Draw Solid to see all of those tools...

I tried searching the forum but I couldn't seem to find an answer. Could anyone point me in the right direction?

Thanks!
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3248.2 In reply to 3248.1 
Hi Rado - there is not any standard way to make them show up all at once. Making them all show up at once would tend to cause problems on smaller sized screens and would also not really allow for future expansion very well.

But if you had something set up for that previously, you probably had installed a custom replacement UI, maybe from here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=1521.1

- Michael
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
3248.3 In reply to 3248.2 
Who has a small screen anymore?

As requested causes no problems, at all, on a 17inch screen.
And my Arthur is still crying out for it!

Brian
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3248.4 In reply to 3248.3 
Hi Brian,

> Who has a small screen anymore?

Lots of people, since laptops often come with small screens...

Actually in MoI v2 there is an easy way to make more use of a larger screen though, by setting the Scene Browser to the "inside" mode. That's available under Options > General > Scene browser position.

That will put the scene browser in the bottom part of the side pane and will make more use of a lot of available vertical space.


It's simply not feasible for me to put every single button out into the top level though - aside from needing to support small screens, I also need to have a system in place that allows for more groups of tools to be added in the future. When more tools are added in the future it will get to the point where they will not all fit even on a large screen, so it's important to have a system in place that does not attempt to show every single button that exists all at once.

- Michael
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
3248.5 In reply to 3248.4 
The same choice decission for the tools as we have in the Beta for the Browser?

Brian
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3248.6 In reply to 3248.5 
Hi Brian,

> The same choice decission for the tools as we have
> in the Beta for the Browser?

Yes, that "inside" mode for the Browser is available in the current v2 beta.

- Michael
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
3248.7 In reply to 3248.6 
But not for expanding the 7 tools "drop downs" so all usable at once without having to click on them to open!
Or am I missing something?
Brian

EDITED: 19 Jan 2010 by BWTR

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 From:  Michael Gibson
3248.8 In reply to 3248.7 
Hi Brian,

> But not for expanding the 7 tools "drop downs" so all usable
> at once without having to click on them to open!

No, not for that - I was just describing a way that you can easily configure an option in MoI with the scene browser to make more use of vertical space on a larger screen.

Like I've mentioned a few times in this thread, it is not generally feasible to put all the icons all on the screen at once, because in the future at some point there will be more than what will fit even on a large screen.

It is not good to make a design that has no good way to expand in the future, that's a UI design error that I see pretty frequently in other programs.

It's an intentional and important part of the UI design that all the buttons are not displayed simultaneously.


It is possible to edit the UI to customize it though, there is an example here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=1521.1

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3248.9 In reply to 3248.7 
Hi Brian, looking at the screenshot you added - in that example where the screen is completely filled up with stuff, what would I then do in the future when I want to add some new tools?

Should I just tell people that no new tools are possible unless they get a 50 inch screen?

- Michael
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
3248.10 In reply to 3248.9 
Michael
Please! You don't seem to be listening/understanding---sorry if my English is at fault.

To me it's AS SIMPLE an OPTION as you have NOW for the Browser?

Brian
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3248.11 In reply to 3248.10 
Hi Brian,

> To me it's AS SIMPLE an OPTION as you have NOW for the Browser?

No, there is no simple option for making all the buttons spew out and be all simultaneously visible.

But there is an option that you can use to make the scene browser be inside of the side pane, which can help make use of extra vertical space that you may have available on a large screen.


It tends to be difficult to make a bunch of options that radically change the UI - it would be a lot of work and cause long term maintenence problems to try and make an option that jammed a whole bunch of buttons around all over the place and re-arranged a whole lot of palettes.

It is not as much work to control one larger piece like the scene browser, that's why I have made an option available for that.

- Michael
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
3248.12 In reply to 3248.11 
I guess I have been spoilt.---NEED to be!
(When you have a thumb ball mouse and STILL need a second hand to click on the buttons)!
At least one of the appps--Silo?--allows different setups to match those normally working with Maya/Lightwave etc?
Ah well
Brian
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3248.13 In reply to 3248.12 
Hi Brian, the problem is it takes a lot of work to produce a lot of different UI versions or to make it customizable through drag and drop.

Early on in MoI's development I decided to dedicate more effort on making a single UI that was easy and fluid to use (with time spent more on design and workflow), rather than focusing most of my energy on making the UI re-arrangable.

Looking back, I am quite sure that it was the right choice!


And actually there is a lot of customization that is possible with MoI's UI since anyone who is familiar with editing text files and HTML can completely change the UI around since it is all in editable text files and not hard coded.

For an example of that see here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=1521.1


If you think that having a drag/drop editable UI is more important than what I have focused on, then I will completely understand that MoI is not the right program for you and that you feel more comfortable in one of those other programs that have focused on different areas.

I mean it is pretty simple - if you don't like MoI's UI then why do you use it? Why not use one of those other programs that you mentioned that you like better? Doesn't that seem like a simple solution?


I mean sure, it would be cool if I could wave a magic wand and produce both a highly designed UI and also a highly drag/drop editable UI at the same time. But magic wands are in short supply around here so I have to focus my efforts and prioritize.

I think I have tried to explain this to you about a dozen times so far...

- Michael
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 From:  eric (ERICCLOUGH)
3248.14 In reply to 3248.13 
Hi Michael ...

I like the UI the way it is ... or maybe I should say the philosophy behind it. Lots of ready availability of commands in the smallest possible space, all logically organized. For me it is simple and intuitive though it may take a couple of clicks to get to the layer of command I want to use.

Another modeler I use (less and less now) has fly out windows that always land in the middle of my model ... confusing to the eye.

I personally have a dual screen setup ... rather large monitors, and this other software allows for dual screen viewing so I have one completely filled with the icons I use all the time though there are still many more I rarely use and can't fit there. The problem with this setup, in my mind, is that the eye has to search frequently to find the visible icons I use less often . But it is more comfortable for me personally than flyouts in the middle of my model. Neither approach is more comfortable for me than the solutions you have worked out for MoI. Overall the couple of mouse clicks are less time consuming and less confusing than a screen full of icons.

I would like to be able to use the dual screen with MoI, sometime in the future. I would not want to change the UI or the way it functions ... just move it off the main monitor to give my drawing board the whole territory. I do architectural work and like to be able to see a whole plan at a scale that still shows a fair amount of detail (and readable text when MoI has built in text).

I recognize that this request, too, may be a time consuming effort and not a very high priority for most users. I imagine the day, though, when I can have one setup for my office monster and another (your default) for my 17" laptop. Still using exactly the same UI.

Overall I think maybe we have spent enough forum time on this subject.

cheers,
eric
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