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 From:  d^^b (DAVID)
3206.1 
Well, again I don´t know if this issue has been treated yet, but I would like to ask if is possible to change the location of the viewports.
I´d like to put the Top view in the bottom left corner, and the Front view over that. The same with the Right and 3D viewports.
The "european" system is the opposite to the "american" system (I learned in those way a thousand of years ago)

You can see this link. It´s in spanish, but the images are enlightening

http://www.gig.etsii.upm.es/gigcom/dibujo%20industrial%20i/dibujo_tecnico/Sist_europeo.htm
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3206.2 In reply to 3206.1 
Hi David, I don't have any way set up to do that currently, but I have added it to the wishlist.

For some reason I thought the European style was more to have the 3D in the lower left, but you're saying that it would go in the lower right, is that correct?

- Michael
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 From:  MrBraun (LORENZO)
3206.3 In reply to 3206.2 
Hello Michael!

What david want is the rigt/left view into top left, the top/bottom view into down left, the front/back into top right and the 3D into down right! ;)

Into technical drawind this is the european standard! :)
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 From:  d^^b (DAVID)
3206.4 In reply to 3206.2 
Hi Michael.

Actually, I don´t know If there are a properly "academic" location for 3d viewport.

When I learned technical drawing with set squares and compass (last century :-P), I drawn like the sketch I show you. Then, the "free" viewport was the lower right. But this is only my habit. Maybe someone can say us what is the properly site.

Another thing is that in the european way, the right view shows the left side of the object :-)


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 From:  d^^b (DAVID)
3206.5 In reply to 3206.3 
Hi Lorenzo:

I think that the front/back must be over the top/bottom, do you?
If I put the top/bottom view into down left, the front view must be into top left, I think...
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 From:  MrBraun (LORENZO)
3206.6 In reply to 3206.5 
Hello David: the front view are relative... for me front can be a right or left part of the object!

The real is that the top/bottom viw must be into down left! :)

___________________________________
MrBraun - Moderator www.C4dHotline.it
Cinema4D R10 and MOI of course!

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 From:  Michael Gibson
3206.7 In reply to 3206.6 
Hi David and MrBraun, the problem is that it is not very feasible for me to arrange viewports in a cross pattern from those drafting diagrams that you have been showing, like this:



That is not efficient to use directly on the computer screen because these areas shown here in red will be empty wasted space:



Instead of showing me that diagram, could you instead show me some examples from some other 3D modeling software that has its 4 viewports set up in the way you want?

Seeing screenshots of actual software modeling views in this case would help me more than those drafting explanation diagrams.

If you could find several programs that arrange them all in a similar way, that would help me to know that it was a common convention that I could also follow.

- Michael

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 From:  MrBraun (LORENZO)
3206.8 In reply to 3206.7 
Hello Michael, sorry my image are only to show to David the european projections!

I now that into 3d pakages have only 4 views! hehehehe

This is what i means! :)

___________________________________
MrBraun - Moderator www.C4dHotline.it
Cinema4D R10 and MOI of course!

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 From:  Michael Gibson
3206.9 In reply to 3206.8 
Hi MrBraun, do you have some 3D programs that use that kind of a view layout?

If so, if you could post some screenshots of them, that would be useful.

For example, is there a way to get that layout with Cinema4D?

- Michael
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 From:  Grendel
3206.10 
C4D Has a default layout like that



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 From:  Michael Gibson
3206.11 In reply to 3206.10 
Hi Grendel, do you know if that layout in Cinema4D is supposed to specifically be a "European style" layout? (according to European style drafting standards or something like that)

It does not look similar to what David and Lorenzo were talking about, that one there looks more like MoI's arrangement but with the 2 vertical columns transposed.

- Michael
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 From:  Grendel
3206.12 In reply to 3206.11 
Each viewport is can be customized for it's display so it can be european as shown or any combination




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 From:  Michael Gibson
3206.13 In reply to 3206.12 
Hi Grendel, that's cool that you can individually customize it...

But what I'm particularly interested in is if there is a common kind of preset layout that is more universally used for a "European drafting standard" style arrangement.

I could also do something for individual customization as well, but in addition to that it is nice to have some kind of preset list of arrangements that match what is commonly used.

So for example if there are a whole bunch of 3D apps that have a "European style" arrangement that you can easily pick as a packaged preset (not by just individual customization like you have described in your last message) and they all agree on what that means, it would be great for me to know about that so I could have the same kind of preset as well.

- Michael
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 From:  DannyT (DANTAS)
3206.14 
I guess we're talking about 1st angle projection (European) vs 3rd angle projection (American), in Australia we use 3rd angle projection the thing I find strange about this is it depends on what you use as the base view, sometimes it will be the top of the part in the top left of the page and sometimes the right side or left side of the part in the top left of the page, it's all about what details you want to show and as long as your projections from the base view are to the standards then this is fine.

I'm talking about drafting here a static piece of paper space or viewport that has a number of views of a particular part, once you lay your first base view you follow the view standards of your region, if the base view is changed or rotated then the other views must change according to the standard.

In MoI the views are not static so if you want to follow a projection standard for 3d modeling viewports then say you change the right view to the left view then the other two views would have to change to follow the projection standards, I have never had an issue with view standards in a 3d program I believe it is more of a 2d drafting thing, because of the dynamic switching of each viewport the standards will not stick.

My two cents on this matter.

Cheers
~Danny~
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3206.15 In reply to 3206.14 
Hi Danny, yeah 3D modeling viewports may not necessarily be expected to adhere to a 2D drafting standard. But it's one of those things where doesn't hurt for it to be similar if possible.

Mainly I'm interested to see some examples of other 4-view tiled arrangements in other 3D modeling software.

If there is a certain kind of convention for how many 3D programs arrange their modeling viewports in Europe (possibly influenced by different drafting standards, or changes in wind patterns, or better quality chocolate available or whatever the case may be), then it would be nice to have that available as a configuration option in MoI for people who are accustomed to it.

But I would prefer to see several examples posted of different programs that use that "European style" layout, so that I could know that I would be following some kind of convention that a fair number of people would be accustomed to using in other software already rather than doing something arbitrary.

- Michael
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 From:  -ash-
3206.16 In reply to 3206.15 
Hi Michael,

Don't think you will find a convention, out of the 5 modeling apps I have only MoI and modo have the same layout by default.

You can change each viewport to any other view in every one of these apps except MoI. Modo is currently the most flexible allowing any number of viewports to be added to the screen as well as defining what each one is. With all that flexibility it doesn't really matter what the default is as you can customize the layout to suit yourself.

Default 4 port layouts:
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 From:  Ralf-S
3206.17 
Rhino V5 beta (2D)

As far as I know with 3D CAD Software, like SWX, Inventor, SolidEdge, Alibre...., it is only important in the 2D area - Projection: First Angle or Third Angle

EDITED: 30 Dec 2009 by RALF-S

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 From:  Ralf-S
3206.18 
Rhino V5 Beta (3D)
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 From:  d^^b (DAVID)
3206.19 
Hello, and happy new year to all:

In Wings3D you can choose in Preferences-->Camera--->Camera mode between Mirai, 3dsmax, Maya, Nendo, Wings3d.....

Maybe you could offer any initial layouts like 3dsmas style, Maya style, etc....and another free mode allowing to put the viewports in any place.

But I have searching in Google, and I have seen some layouts of the more popular software, but I´m not sure if those are the initial layouts or those images are customized from his users. Anyway, -ash- and Ralf-S have given information about any software. Thanks!

For me would be enough if the XY Plane was in the lower area of the screen :-)
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 From:  Marc (TELLIER)
3206.20 In reply to 3206.19 
Hi,

I think the current viewport setup is quite intuitive.

When a left view is necessary for a specific object, sometimes I wish that the other views would flip side accordingly.


Default arrangement:

T P
F R

An example of arrangement with a left view:

P T
L F

Would be easier on my brain in this situation.


Marc
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