Hi Pilou,

> Less useful then edges but in some case can be useful

If you find a useful case, please post the model for it.

This one though (select face loop) is something that is rarely found in CAD and is more of a polygon modeling function only.

- Michael

Ok, it was just a simple question :)

>>>Putting advanced functionality on keyboard shortcuts is a strategy that helps me offer additional features for advanced users but at the same time keeps the overall UI streamlined and very easy to use.

I understand but in this case (Looped edge selection) an "advance" feature? functions like that should be "obvious" IMO


>>>For example you can't really work with a touch screen in front of you all day long at a desk because your arm will get too strained by reaching out in front of you all the time.

I was referring to pen tables with finger gestures combo.... and funny enough it was my doctors recommendation to use a tablet due to a wrist problem I had...I'm telling u is a bliss using AliasStudio or Photoshop all day long on a tablet.


>>>Touch screens have actually been available since the 1970s, if they are a much better way for designers to work, wouldn't you have thought it would have happened in the last 30 years?

I wish was that simple, there many variables you have to take in to account, one of them is price, and how many hardware/software vendors could provide solutions at a reasonable cost ?
But now days you can get an iPod touch for $150.00...soon a tablet computers for $300-500.
Oh here is a funny example, Autodesk SketchBook, Users have purchased more than 140,000 copies and have downloaded more than 900,000 copies of the free version on the App Store...hmm Not bad $450.000 in two months. How many copies you think they will sell when the apple tablet is out?

>>>You can easily pretend that this new function does not exist, it does not get in your way or interfere with the existing normal operation on a tablet.

No comments on this one :(


Thanks again for your time and input.

Hi neo,

> I understand but in this case (Looped edge selection)
> an "advance" feature? functions like that should be
> "obvious" IMO

Seems to be more in that category as it is not particularly necessary for smaller sized models and it has just not been that frequently requested compared to other things.

I think eventually it will probably end up with a button for it under the Select menu in the side pane though. I will probably wait a bit before doing that to see how many other variants or similar functions to it will be in there overall.

I don't think that it comes up frequently enough to merit a full in-viewport "heads up" UI though - that type of stuff needs to be reserved for things that used on a much more frequent basis.

If you fill up the priority UI with lesser used things it ends up poorly for the overall usability.

There is some possibility that I will be able to re-evaluate it over time and promote it up there, but leaping to put stuff at that level too early is a very bad move for the long run.


> I was referring to pen tables with finger gestures combo....

The video you linked to was 2 hands directly on a screen, not a pen tablet.


> and funny enough it was my doctors recommendation to use a
> tablet due to a wrist problem I had...

Well, I'm certain that he meant a pen tablet that would be in a roughly similar location as a mousepad, it is unlikely that he was talking about a touch screen like in your linked video.

Definitely for some people gripping a pen rather than a mouse makes them have a better posture. That does not have a whole lot to do with replacing your monitor with a touchscreen one though.


> one of them is price, and how many hardware/software
> vendors could provide solutions at a reasonable cost ?

If there was a high demand by designers for that in a desktop environment, there would have definitely been more focus on bringing cost effective solutions for this to the marketplace.

Did you actually read the wikipedia link?
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touch_screen#Ergonomics_and_usage)

There is not just one ergonomic problem, there are many in addition to arm strain, like stress on the neck if you have to look downwards, smudging of the screen by your hand, and your hand obscuring the content on the screen. These are big problems that won't magically be solved in the next few years.


> But now days you can get an iPod touch for $150.00

Do you seriously consider an iPod touch to be a replacement for a desktop computer for full time all day work?

Really, seriously??


> Oh here is a funny example, Autodesk SketchBook, Users
> have purchased more than 140,000 copies and have downloaded
> more than 900,000 copies of the free version on the App Store...

Yeah, I'm sure it is cool for specialized usage, like being able to at least attempt to draw something while you are on a subway or something like that.

Find me some people who are throwing away their desktop computers and only using Autodesk SketchBook on the iPhone for all their illustration work, and then I will be more impressed!


Again, it is easy to get carried away with the "cool factor" with stuff like this. Sorry to pour cold water, but the reality is harsh.

- Michael

Hi neo, so the other general problem is that it is just far, far more time intensive to design UI that is tablet friendly.

I'm glad that I focused on it early in MoI's design, because it helped me to start from scratch and do some stuff that was fresh and new instead of just doing the "standard app" dropdown menu + toolbar type thing.

I am careful to not disturb the existing tablet friendly nature of MoI when adding in new functions, but it is just not possible for me to take the design time to have every single new feature be "heads up tablet enabled" in all cases.... It is just too time intensive, the reality would be that I would not be able to add in as many functions.

So the main choice with this loop selection for example is to have it as something you can set up as a keyboard shortcut, or to not have it all until some time in the future when I could spend all the time that would be necessary to consider how to make it work in a "heads up" manner if that is even possible (possible to do without making a decrease in overall usability in the long term I mean).

Which do you think would be the better choice in this case - do you think it would be better if it was not added in at all?

It would be cool if I could magically have 72 hours of work in a day to have more design time, but I'm limited to only 24 hours in a day.

- Michael

just to clarify I did mention that I use Cintiq 21UX on my first post, the SpaceClaim MultiTouch link was more of a show case on finger gestures in a CAD application...

also last thing I want is to play/sketch on a iphone on the other hand using SketchBook & MoI on tablet it does make sense to me.

perhaps there is a language barrier here :(

Hi neo,

> the SpaceClaim MultiTouch link was more of a show case on
> finger gestures in a CAD application...

It does look pretty cool! I wish that I had more time available to me so that I could play around with it and experiment with some similar stuff.

But sadly my time is limited and there is currently more mainstream type stuff that needs attention first.


> also last thing I want is to play/sketch on a iphone

I am confused now - why did you specifically mention the iphone/ipod touch as an example then?


At any rate, like I mentioned it is important to me to not mess up the stuff in MoI that does work well on a tablet currently.


I understand that you wish that I could work 100% of the time only on refining MoI for multi-touch. But that's just not what the larger number of my user base needs for me to be focused on.

- Michael

Hi Michael,

I've set up a shortcut key for this inline script / MoI edge loop select function:

script: /*Edge loop selection*/ moi.geometryDatabase.selectLoop();

But a lot of the time when I select two edges and run the script, the result is not as I'd expect. Here's an illustration:



The first image shows two edges I selected, the second image shows the result, and the third image shows the selection I'd love to see.

Is there maybe a possible workaround or different approach to get the desired edge loop selection?

Many thanks.

Hi Metin,

> Is there maybe a possible workaround or different approach to get the desired edge loop selection?

Sorry no, not currently. Right now the loop selection mechanism works as described here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=3112.22
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=3112.32

It tries to target a trimming loop on one face. The result you are looking for is crossing over 3 different faces it looks like.

- Michael

Thanks Michael,

It'd be great if you could maybe add recognition of edge continuity across faces to the V4 features, for easier edge loop selections. I use those edge loop selections a lot for fillets.

+1 to this request please!



Something like this, so the red lined loop would be selected, not the current yellow selection.

Thanks,
t

Hi Tover, can you please post your .3dm model file or e-mail it to me at moi@moi3d.com so I can take a look?

- Michael