Rhino line types  1-20  21

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 From:  eric (ERICCLOUGH)
3004.1 
Hi Michael ...

I had hoped to see line types (like dashes and dots and such)set up in Rhino preserved when switching back and forth between Rhino and MoI. I thought it might make it in to this latest beta.

Everything goes back to continuous lines when saved in MoI.

Is this likely to happen before ver 2 is released?

Id not, I can work around it, I think, but I'll have to change my work flow pattern to separate my 2d files from my 3d images ... now I keep everything in one large drawing so I can refer to 2d stuff while developing the 3d models. I don't need to see linetypes in MoI but I hate it when I switch back to Rhino and all my dashed lines in the 2d drawing have reverted to solids. Lineweight characteristics seem to be preserved, though.

Otherwise, I am always awed a little with each new iteration of MoI. Keep up the great work.

cheers,
eric
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 From:  jbshorty
3004.2 In reply to 3004.1 
Are you assigning the linetypes as object properties? or assigning by layer? Would it make a difference either way?

jonah
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 From:  eric (ERICCLOUGH)
3004.3 In reply to 3004.2 
Hi Jonah

I set up all my linetypes and other info in a Rhino template ... all in layers specific to my working drawing needs.

After I do some work in MoI using the template setup when I save with MoI all the attributes come back to Rhino except linetypes ... they all revert to continuous lines.

I'm sure I can learn to work around this, if necessary, but for the time being I am finding that I tend to simply keep working with Rhino when I have some modeling to do in a larger context where models and 2d working drawings share the same file.

I don't use 'objects' frequently so I don't know if that would make any difference.

I'm doing architectural work and frequently change aspects of 3d and 2d work almost simultaneously so I normally switch between the two a lot during development design stages.

Michael noted earlier that he hoped to be able to maintain linetype integrity in ver 2 so I have been eager for it to happen.

cheers,
eric
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3004.4 In reply to 3004.1 
Hi Eric,

> Is this likely to happen before ver 2 is released?

No, unfortunately I won't be able to make this one happen for MoI v2, it will not be until MoI v3 that this happens.

I did investigate it to see if I could do it for v2.

The problem is that linetypes were a new function added in to Rhino v4.

MoI currently uses the OpenNURBS v3 toolkit, and I cannot make the linetypes round trip back to a Rhino file with this toolkit version, I need to update to the OpenNURBS v4 toolkit in order to do that.

That's too major of a change to try and incorporate right at the end of the MoI v2 beta cycle. It's just too likely to introduce a bug making a major library switch like that so close to release time.

Once MoI v3 gets underway, then that will be a good time to switch to a newer OpenNURBS toolkit version and at that point it should be possible for me to preserve linetypes when round-tripping files.

Sorry for the difficulties until then.

- Michael
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 From:  eric (ERICCLOUGH)
3004.5 In reply to 3004.4 
Thanks for looking into it, Michael.

It will really be helpful when MoI will allow round tripping ...

In the meantime I think I can work around it but it will take a little thought about how to approach a project in a slightly different way than the rut I have worn in my brain pathways.

I started the modeling (in MoI) of a house I'm designing and then imported the model into the Rhino template I used for all the floor plan stuff (including a lot of linetypes). Then I realized that I would have to stay in Rhino if I wanted to preserve those attributes and pulled some hair I can't afford to lose.

Thanks again ... keep it in mind for later.

eric
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 From:  jbshorty
3004.6 In reply to 3004.5 
Hi Eric. You could just write a simple macro to reassign your linetypes in Rhino. As long as the layer names are not consistent across all your files, I think it should work... Just a temporary workaround of course...
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 From:  jbshorty
3004.7 In reply to 3004.6 
oops... i meant to say "as long as the layer names ARE consistent across all your files..." :)

jonah
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 From:  WillBellJr
3004.8 
I just wanted to say Thanks Michael, for taking the time to explain your development issues - I really appreciate the support you provide for MoI.

I'll be interesting to see what new capabilities the v4 toolset will bring. ;-)

-Will
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 From:  eric (ERICCLOUGH)
3004.9 In reply to 3004.8 
I totally agree, Will.

The support we get is truly incredible.

I'm regearing my work flow (and my brain) to use MoI for more and more of my work. Without Michael's patient support it would be most difficult.

cheers,
eric
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 From:  eric (ERICCLOUGH)
3004.10 In reply to 3004.9 
Hi Michael and all ...

Now that I have put aside my hangup saying that 'I can't use MoI much if I can't preserve Rhino linetypes' I am having a lot of fun simply using only the layers (styles) that apply to the model when working in MoI and inserting that into my Rhino working drawing when needed for reference there and for rendering with Flamingo. Don't lose the linetypes in the other layers that way.

I am getting a feeling for 'styles' and the very easy manipulation of elements they allow. 'Fast and fluid'.

I'm sure I am just touching the surface of MoI but I am really enjoying working with it.

It combines the best features of its modeling competitors and exceeds them all (IMO) at very, very fair price.

thanks again, Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3004.11 In reply to 3004.10 
Hi Eric, I think you figured out earlier that you can use File/Import in Rhino to bring your MoI-edited file back and not lose your linetypes? (if you import it into a file where you have all those layers set up).

But I will try to get this handled earlier in the v3 beta period rather than later.


> I am getting a feeling for 'styles' and the very easy
> manipulation of elements they allow. 'Fast and fluid'.

Great! Yeah one of the nice things about having a streamlined UI is that there is just not as much stuff to sort through when you're trying to find the right thing to click on.

There is quite a bit of subtle functionality included for styles in MoI though too.

So I'm sure you've seen that you can click on an eye to hide things.

A couple of other useful things that are not as immediately obvious:

If you right-click on an eye, it will do an "isolate" where everything else _except_ that thing is hidden. So for example here I am using that right-click:




If there are several styles in a row that you want to change, you can do that by a "swipe" where you hold the mouse button down and drag across several lines. So here for instance I'm only pressing the mouse button down once and swiping to set these:




Then also there are other clickable areas on a line than just the eye part, if you move your mouse over the swatch or the name label you will see those are actually button like areas as well:



If you click on the swatch, it will assign the current selection to that style.

If you click on the name area, that is used for selection - left click on it to add all things of that style to the current selection, or right-click on it to do an "isolated selection" where only those things become selected and other things become deselected.


Those are some of the most useful things, there is some other stuff in there as well though with holding down Ctrl and such, like Ctrl+click on an eye will work for lock/unlock.

- Michael

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 From:  Marc (TELLIER)
3004.12 In reply to 3004.11 
I've also noticed the ctrl+click on the name will subtract selection, very useful!!

Marc
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 From:  eric (ERICCLOUGH)
3004.13 In reply to 3004.11 
Hi Michael ..

Yes, as long as I set up Rhino with the same layer names as MoI styles and set the linetypes I want in Rhino then 'import' works great and all the display and print functions perform the way I expect them to. I use Rhino 5 beta now and it works one way like a charm.

The other aspects of styles that you set up are great ... I am enjoying learning the routines.

I am soon going to start my first set of architectural working drawings in MoI ... while you have not set up MoI for this purpose yet I think I can get the translation back to Rhino for dimensions and notes. It will be an interesting challenge.

thanks again for your good work and your superb support.

cheers,
eric
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 From:  eric (ERICCLOUGH)
3004.14 In reply to 3004.13 
Hi again, Michael ...

I have been doing a little more playing with the MoI / Rhino interchange attempting to move 'styles' back and forth ... particularly linetypes.

Using Rhino 5:

If I carefully set up a template in Rhino with everything I think I will eventually need ... linetypes, layer colors, lineweights, etc ... and then open the template in MoI I can

Prepare a two or three dimensional drawing using those preset styles and then 'export' this drawing to a file (don't 'save' it ever) ..

Then I can open the original template in Rhino 5 and 'import' the drawing prepared in MoI ... all my linetypes, colors, and lineweights are there ... alive and well ... ready for dimensions and notes and the assignment of render materials.

I have had all the advantages of the easy modeling MoI is capable of and the other stuff I need from Rhino, too.

One other small caution ... 'insert' brings the MoI drawing in, too ... and it looks o.k. for color and linetypes and stuff but it is all on the same layer it was inserted into ... a real mess.
Also do not open the MoI 'export' directly with Rhino 5 ... it does not automatically bring the information with it.

As I said in the last post I hope to use MoI for a set of architectural working drawings soon ... implementing with dimensions and notes with Rhino.


I'll let you know if the workflow functions for me.

cheers,
eric
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 From:  Colin
3004.15 In reply to 3004.14 
Hi Eric,

Not sure if you saw this, but I've previously posted a MoI-Rhino4 Template file that I made.
I'm assuming that it'd work the same in the new R5 WIP as it does in the current R4?
Hopefully it's of some use to you.

regards Colin
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 From:  eric (ERICCLOUGH)
3004.16 In reply to 3004.15 
Hi Colin ...

Thanks ...

I opened the file but it seems to contain only the default Rhino layers ... default and layers 1 through 5

???

eric
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 From:  Colin
3004.17 In reply to 3004.16 
Hi Eric,

Sorry, I was under the impression that's what you were after...a MoI template that had the Rhino Default Layers already setup.
Just thought this might save you some time.

regards Colin
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 From:  eric (ERICCLOUGH)
3004.18 In reply to 3004.17 
Again, thanks Colin ...

What I needed and have set up is a template for my architectural drawing needs ... many layers from foundations to framing with lots of linetypes and differing colors.

So far it is working well as long as I remember not to 'save' my MoI created drawing ... but to export it instead. THen I can import it into my Rhino job template without losing all that custom stuff.

cheers,
eric
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 From:  BurrMan
3004.19 In reply to 3004.18 
Hi Eric,
Maybe customize the MoI UI and remove the Save buttons :O
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 From:  Michael Gibson
3004.20 In reply to 3004.18 
Hi Eric, a couple of notes -

If you Right-click on the Open button instead of left click it, that will do an "Open Template" rather than a regular open.

The difference is that "Open Template" does not set the current file name in MoI so it is not so easy to accidentally overwrite the file that you open.

There's also another option related to this which you can set in moi.ini (use Options / General / Edit .ini file button).

[FileDialog]
EnableReadOnlyCheckbox=n

If you switch that to =y, then for the regular Open there will be an "Open as read-only" checkbox at the bottom of it which you can check to turn on. When that option is checked on the file dialog, it will also prevent Save from automatically writing to the current file name and instead prompt you for a name like "Save As".

So either of those methods can help to prevent Save from overwriting the current file if you want to guard against that.


Also I think that Copy from MoI and Paste into Rhino should end up working as the equivalent of Export / Import, so that is possibly another way to move your objects back without disturbing the line types and also not overwriting any files.

- Michael
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