Yes, I do mean Maximizing the view to take up the whole window.

> Otherwise switching between 2 maximized views
> is kind of awkward because you have to go to
> the corner, restore back to split view, then go
> to the other viewport and expand it.

Well, I guess when you put it like that it wouldn't make sense, but I wasn't thinking of using the corner to activate the viewport expansion, I was picturing maybe something I've seen where you hold down one of the pen buttons to pop up a set of faded icons, like the view control bar, then mouse over the view you want.

Re:Space bar, yes as I've mentioned above, I use this script/key combo all the time, but with the laptop tablet folded down I don't have access to the keys any more.

~Danny~

Hi Danny,

> I was picturing maybe something I've seen where
> you hold down one of the mouse buttons to pop up
> a set of faded icons

That's one of those things that could be good for expert users but is kind of too hidden or subtle for people who are just starting with the software.

The current one lets someone have a good chance at figuring out how to switch between different views just by looking at the screen for the first time - that's pretty huge.

Switching between views is a pretty basic function... it's one of the things that I wanted to make highly visible and not really hidden away or too cryptic.


In the future at some point I'd like to experiment with some kind of pop-up toolbar, but I'm not so sure it would be practical to put the whole view tabs in there, they kind of take up a lot of space. There could be a single button that would toggle between split and max views, but that still seems like it would be an awkward "summon the pop-up 2 times" to switch between maximized views.

- Michael

Hi Michael,

> Switching between views is a pretty basic function...
> it's one of the things that I wanted to make highly
> visible and not really hidden away or too cryptic.

I agree, you could also have both options.

> In the future at some point I'd like to experiment
> with some kind of pop-up toolbar, but I'm not so
> sure it would be practical to put the whole view
> tabs in there, they kind of take up a lot of space.

It's not original but it's quite handy, I was thinking something along these lines.



Cheers

Hi Danny,

> I agree, you could also have both options.

Yes, that's possible. But with a complex option like a pop-up UI it sort of needs to give a pretty big benefit to justify the redundancy.

The current method just does not seem to be an impediment - there are some qualities about it that make it work smoothly, like it is always in the same area of the screen and the buttons are quite large which makes them easier to acquire with the mouse.

Do you possibly have your UI shrunken down to a small size? If so you may want to go to Options / General / UI size and increase it a bit to make the buttons easier to hit.

Also it is just not that common to actually switch the view at a really rapid pace, like it is not common that you need to switch it once every few seconds. You may need to do it rapidly in some special circumstances but generally not at a continued pace. It's more common to stick in one view for a little while as you draw things there, etc...


> It's not original but it's quite handy, I was thinking
> something along these lines.

I don't know - that's quite a lot of "UI cost" - it would take up a special action slot that could then not be used for anything else. I try to be conservative about using those things up, this case just does not seem to provide enough payback.

I'm also not sure how it would help you in the pen stylus case - currently left click and right click are already taken with different actions. Something like this would probably go on a middle click, but you probably don't have a middle click available on your stylus?

- Michael

Hi Michael,

Ok, you have some valid points there, I'm just going by what other vendors are adding to they're software and the fact that I'm using a tablet PC more often and noticed this.

> I'm also not sure how it would help you
> in the pen stylus case - currently left
> click and right click are already taken
> with different actions. Something like
> this would probably go on a middle click,
> but you probably don't have a middle
> click available on your stylus?

The action I'm familiar with is actually using the RMB and not actually clicking the button but to hold it down for a second then the popup will appear then you mouse over the icon you want and upon release you call that command.

Thanks for looking at this anyway, meanwhile I've hooked up my spacenavigator which has a couple of programmable buttons :)

Cheers

Hi Danny,

> I'm just going by what other vendors are adding
> to they're software

Is that something new in NX6?

Did they previously have any control available at the top level UI for switching views like MoI's view tab control?

It seems like something like you are describing might get added into a system that did not already have an easy way to switch views...


> The action I'm familiar with is actually using the RMB and
> not actually clicking the button but to hold it down for a
> second then the popup will appear then you mouse over
> the icon you want and upon release you call that command.

Yeah, that could be a possible triggering action.

I've been a little hesitant to rely on that action too much since it can be slightly odd to "hold still" when you are actually trying to do things quickly.

I also worry a bit about it possibly getting triggered accidentally when the actual intent was to right drag to pan or rotate a view.

- Michael

Hi Michael,

> Is that something new in NX6?
No, implemented about 3 versions ago.

> Did they previously have any control available
> at the top level UI for switching views like
> MoI's view tab control?

Yes there has always been a toolbar for this.

> I also worry a bit about it possibly getting
> triggered accidentally when the actual intent
> was to right drag to pan or rotate a view.

Ah yes, that's the difference, NX6 always uses the MMB for rotation.

-

Hi Danny,

> Ah yes, that's the difference, NX6 always uses the MMB for rotation.

What is used for panning and zooming then in NX6?

One priority I had for MoI was to try and make rotate, pan and zoom with the mouse be all immediately available and not require modifier keys, although there are several modifier keys that do work for people who are used to using them in other software.

So in MoI:

Right drag = Rotate 3D viewport or Pan in a 2D view.
Middle drag = Pan in either kind of viewport.
Scroll wheel = zoom


These view manipulations are actions that you may want to do at a very frequent rate, so they basically got the highest priority.

Other things that you may not need to do at such a high frequency can actually be good to not try to super optimize to be as fast as possible because if you don't do them too often it does not really gain you much in the big picture to have them super optimized (By super optimized I mean something like trying to make them happen in 1 second instead of 2 seconds or something like that).

- Michael

Hi Michael,

> What is used for panning and zooming then in NX6?

Firstly, in NX we predominantly work in the 3D view all the time.
The buttons used:

Right drag = No view action, popups.
Middle drag = Rotate
Middle+Right drag = Pan
Middle scroll = Zoom

-

Hi Danny,

> Firstly, in NX we predominantly work in the 3D view all the time.

I guess that kind of leads me to wonder why it is set up with a special popup menu for switching to different views if they are not used very often?


Re: view manipulation - the one that seems pretty odd to me is the Middle+Right drag = Pan. That's holding down 2 buttons of the mouse at the same time?

That's so undiscoverable - it seems unlikely that anyone would ever figure that out without training.

I mean when I am messing around with a program to figure out how it works, I will try some various mouse buttons and keys but I never think to try holding down multiple simultaneous mouse buttons to see what that will do.

- Michael

Hi Michael,

> I guess that kind of leads me to wonder why
> it is set up with a special popup menu for
> switching to different views if they are
> not used very often?

I might of indicated that the popup is for the views, in actual fact I've got mine set up for different shading views, wire, shaded with hidden lines....etc. they can be changed to what ever you want, I was just trying to convey the action to be used in MoI for the views.

> That's so undiscoverable - it seems unlikely
> that anyone would ever figure that out without training.

mmm....I can't remember how I knew that, maybe in the documentation which nobody reads :) also I think most 'high end' 3d CAD packages utilise these buttons in the same manner.

-

That's the first time I've ever heard of having to hold down the middle and right buttons for something!

I couldn't even do that on my wacom - the right click is set to the stylus button closest to the tip and the middle is set to the top button... :-P

-Will

> I've been a little hesitant to rely on that action too much since
> it can be slightly odd to "hold still" when you are actually trying
> to do things quickly.

With TabletPC you can set "hold it down for a second" action as a synonym to right-click and it is very useful to me. Actually, this is also why I had asked and Michael added an alternate method to pop up cline menu - you can press and hold down on the marker for a moment or right-click the marker to pop up the construction line menu.

Petr