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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
2944.1 
No list somewhere of unnamed object?

If you select 2 same objects unnamed at the same place it's writed "2 solids" in the top pannel menu
(it's not so bad ;)

but In the Browser they don't appear in a list
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2944.2 In reply to 2944.1 
Hi Pilou, what kind of list would like like to see?

Do you mean you would like to see something in the scene browser that said "Unnamed" once for every unnamed object in the scene?

That would seem to look rather strange, since they would all have the same label you would not really know which one was which by looking at the name.

In general it's a feature that unnamed objects are not listed in the browser, that helps keep the browser to only show objects that are important to you (which you signaled by naming them) and not showing all the other ones which would clog things up and make it harder to access the important ones.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
2944.3 In reply to 2944.2 
< what kind of list would like like to see?
A simple list that you can copy in a Text prog!
Ok not useful for unnamed object :) but useful for named object!
Said I want make a scale model, i will be happy to have this list!

< That would seem to look rather strange, since they would all have the same label you would not really know which one was which by looking at the name.

Yes but when you click on the list you can see it at the screen
Usefull when you have a lot of objects unnamed on the scene and don't easy to click on the screen !
But maybe I am wrong

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 From:  Michael Gibson
2944.4 In reply to 2944.3 
Hi Pilou,

> A simple list that you can copy in a Text prog!

I guess you mean copying the names as clipboard text or something like that?

It would be possible to make a plug-in that would do that.

But I can't see why you would expect to have that as part of the regular UI... What is the purpose that you would use it for again? Maybe you could give an example?


> Yes but when you click on the list you can see it
> at the screen
> Usefull when you have a lot of objects unnamed on the scene
> and don't easy to click on the screen !
> But maybe I am wrong

You mean you would click on every item listed as "unnamed" to see them highlight in the viewport?

I don't see how that would be useful, what would be the purpose for doing that?

If you want to have a particular object show up in the list, select it in the viewport and then assign it a name and then it will be in the list.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
2944.5 In reply to 2944.4 
< But I can't see why you would expect to have that as part of the regular UI... What is the purpose that you would use it for again? Maybe you could give an example?
If you can have that in the regular UI : perfect!

< It would be possible to make a plug-in that would do that. :
perfect

In this case, if i have the list I can see if I have forget something
Same number of Objets and / or groups

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 From:  Michael Gibson
2944.6 In reply to 2944.5 
Hi Pilou, I see - that is sometimes called a "Bill of Materials".

But I'm not so sure that object names would fit with that as the most natural way.

That kind of function is often combined more with an "instance" type mechanism.


Maybe in the future at some point there could be a full Bill of Materials function included in MoI but I think that will be quite some ways down the road.

Also I think most of the time it's not only a list of names but more of a kind of table that includes a number count for each category.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
2944.7 
in the same order of idea
Your system allows to give a same name at different objets (not in the same time with a separated selection) why not :)
But does it possible to have an alert message who say something like "Name is yet existing!" when you create a new object?

idem for a nature of object (cube, sphere,...) a cone named "bil" is yet existing
idem for colors....a blue object named "bil" is yet existing
idem for the blender : a blue box named "bil" is yet existing!

Because if you have (without remember that for any reason) some objects with the same name (nature, color) you can erase some others than the first one wished!
So another alert message "Carreful you erase some objects with the same(nature, colors) name!" so "are you sure: Yes / no?" ;)

Of course you have the up right side "window infos" with written "3 solids" but we never think to read it ;)

EDITED: 28 Sep 2009 by PILOU

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 From:  Michael Gibson
2944.8 In reply to 2944.7 
Hi Pilou,

> Your system allows to give a same name at different objets
> (not in the same time with a separated selection) why not :)

Yup, that's a feature! :)

That allows you to use object naming as a kind of category grouping if you want.

Also it's used at export time when saving to a mesh format, objects with the same name will be exported to the same mesh object (unless you disable that under Options > Import/Export > Combine samed named objects). That helps to enable more control over how the mesh data is organized.


> But does it possible to have an alert message who say
> something like "Name is yet existing!" when you create
> a new object?

Hmmm, well those kinds of warning messages can be very annoying and disruptive, especially if they pop up all the time when you are trying to use a feature!

I generally try to avoid such interruptions unless they are really very necessary.

In this case, it seems to be very normal to not warn, I just tried several other programs that allow naming objects in them: Rhino, ViaCAD, Cinema4D and Silo, and none of those pop up any warning if you give a second object the same name as an existing one.

Do you know of any other program existing that puts up a warning for that?


> So another alert message "Carreful you erase some objects with
> the same(nature, colors) name!" so "are you sure: Yes / no?" ;)

Well, the same thing as above applies to this one - it seems like that would probably be very annoying and I don't see that happen with any other program.

Again, do you have an example of any other program that has this behavior?


> Of course you have the up right side "window infos" with written
> "3 solids" but we never think to read it ;)

Well, if this is a big concern for you, you can try harder to look over there so you can know if you have more than one thing selected...

That's probably the best solution because it will not cause interruptions and annoyance.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
2944.9 In reply to 2944.8 
< Do you know of any other program existing that puts up a warning for that?

in Sketchup you can't create a component if a previus name exist ;) so alert message !
you can create groups with the same name ;)

I understand your point of view, solution to see the up side corner can be a solution
but in very big project seems that can be helpful to be warned

a little trick will be not to make a message but just change the color of the text during the typing ;)
Normal color if any previus name exists, red color... (or bold ) if it's exact name at the end of type
So your are warned and can accept or not (add a letter or change it) the input by Enter without message needed ;)

PS And about the enligting of name selected on the browser? (see previous image)

EDITED: 28 Sep 2009 by PILOU

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 From:  Michael Gibson
2944.10 In reply to 2944.9 
Hi Pilou,

> in Sketchup you can't create a component if a previus
> name exist ;) so alert message !

A "component" in sketchup is not the same as a simple "object name" in MoI - in SketchUp components are a special kind of thing, like an instance definition and not just a regular object.

I don't think that SketchUp has the concept of simple object names in it which are just a property of a single object. If it did I guess it would be under the "Entity Info" dialog.


> but in very big project seems that can be helpful to be warned

Hmmm, well it's hard to guess about these kinds of things. So far nobody doing big projects has seemed to run into an issue with it.

Since the standard behavior for other applications is to not warn, it seems that would be strange to have MoI behave so differently.


> a little trick will be not to make a message but just change the
> color of the text during the typing ;)
> Normal color if any previus name exists, red color... (or bold ) if
> it's exact name at the end of type

That would also probably be pretty confusing - when things suddenly and mysteriously change color, it makes people tend to stop and think "what in the world is going on, I have no idea... what a strange software", and does not make them automatically think "oh I see that is the same name as elsewhere".

I try to avoid using colors in these kinds of mysterious ways to cut down on that kind of confusion and uncertain feelings.


> PS And about the enligting of name selected
> on the browser? (see previous image)

Maybe in the future... But there is another situation that needs to be planned for - what if there are multiple objects with that name in the model, and if only some of them are selected and not all? If there is a selection state shown in the browser, it needs to also deal with this kind of mixed selection display.

For hide/show, that is when you get the "half of an eye" display. If there was a selection indicator it would need something similar.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
2944.11 In reply to 2944.10 
< "what a strange software"
It's that all people said about Zbrush some years ago, but now it's always a stange program but all people use it :)

So not change color or red color, just subtle "normal flashing text" ;)
Because when you lose 12 aircrafts on an aircraft carrier maybe you should be happy to be warned :)

EDITED: 28 Sep 2009 by PILOU

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 From:  Michael Gibson
2944.12 In reply to 2944.11 
Hi Pilou,

> So not change color or red color, just subtle
> "normal flashing text" ;)

You're joking, right? Because "subtle" and "flashing" are pretty much opposite things...


> Because when you lose 12 aircrafts on an aircraft carrier
> maybe you should be happy to be warned :)

Well like you already saw, if you want to know how many things you are deleting, look at the properties panel where it shows you the number of selected objects before you hit delete.

Do you know of any other program that warns you if you try to delete many objects with the same name?

Seems like that would be very unusual to me...

- Michael
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 From:  Ralf-S
2944.13 
Micheal, I agree.

Pilou, maybe you could save a "version" before you make major changes:

The first is my favorite (thousands of users worldwide)

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- Ralf
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
2944.14 In reply to 2944.12 
In fact generally as you can't create different objects with the same name, you can't erase 2 objects with the same name :)
Anim8or ;) http://www.anim8or.com/
Maybe it's not exactly a normal CAD program ;)

So I will see with attention the right up corner and I find it's to hard for me I will ask a special flashing text :)

@Ralph : yes I can make also this : a little copy before delete action

EDITED: 28 Sep 2009 by PILOU

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 From:  Ralf-S
2944.15 
@ Pilou

> @Ralph : yes I can make also this : a little copy before delete action

Hmm, there is a difference: A version is a version and many versions are a file history of versions -> starting from the first version of the same file ;-)
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2944.16 In reply to 2944.14 
Hi Pilou,

> In fact generally as you can't create different objects with
> the same name, you can't erase 2 objects with the same
> name :)

But that does not seem to be the case - it seems to be more common in other programs to allow naming more than one object with the same name.

Like I mentioned before, I tried Rhino, ViaCAD, Cinema4D, and Silo, and every one of these programs do not pop up a warning or prohibit assigning the same name to 2 different objects.

That is interesting that Anim8or does not allow it, but that seems to be in the minority...

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2944.17 In reply to 2944.14 
Hi Pilou, for good measure I tried a couple of additional programs, this time some 2D ones: Creature House Expression and Paint Shop Pro.

These programs also have the ability to assign names to objects and once again there is no restriction that prevents 2 objects from having the same name.

- Michael
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 From:  falcon76
2944.18 In reply to 2944.17 
What about have the object list (and the blank space) in the "edit object name" window?
So if I want to add parts to an existing object I just select it from the list, if I want to make a new object I can see if it's already there. I know that for very complex project we can have a lot of objects, but for me is better than nothing.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2944.19 In reply to 2944.18 
Hi Luca, I've thought some about possibly having a dropdown arrow on the Edit object name dialog, to help to pick an existing name.

But there may be a different way that could be better. I've thought some about having an additional button on the line for a named object in the object browser, that would allow you to assign other objects to that same name.

One possibility would be a small + button that was in between where the Status/Eye label is and the name.

That would then be similar to how you can click on a Style's swatch in the browser to assign the selected objects to that style.


The other possibility might be instead of having a + button there could be an arrow on the far right side that would pop up a menu with some choices on it, including "Assign to this name".

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
2944.20 In reply to 2944.17 
< for good measure
Yep, for this time my 2D prog make the same and permit 2 same names

so the workflow can be as soon an object is created select it on see if the counter up side right page is increased ;)

PS Blender don't allow to give a same name for 2 different objects of same nature ;)
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