Ok, so aside from using MoI, I still need a poly modeller for some things, and a renderer.

So my 3 choices look like this:

3ds Max
Maya
Modo

I have a bit of experience with Max, but none with Maya or Modo.

PaQ, I notice you use Modo.

So for modelling and rendering things like space ships, etc. which of those 3 would you recommend?

Cheers
Cabz

Personally I would think you would want to add Cinema4D to your candidate list there, and probably go with either Modo or Cinema4D.

- Michael

Oh, really?

So 3ds Max and Maya aren't that good?

And Cinema4D is wortha look, too?

Hi NightCabbage,

> So 3ds Max and Maya aren't that good?

Well, it's all relative to what your particular goals are. For example if you were doing a feature film then probably Maya would become a bigger thing to shoot for.

It's not necessarily that they aren't "good" - but those 2 are kind of older and rather more complex I think so they would probably take more learning curve time to ramp up to get proficient with them.

- Michael

3ds max and maya have heaps of advanced functionality and go way back. There is a lot there to crawl through before you get any decent work done. Not sure about Maya, but 3ds has basically been adding functionality with every release without dramatic changes in the workflow. So it's not the most ergonomic software out there. Quite the opposite of MoI in that respect. You can do almost anything - with the manual within reach.

Modo and Cinema 4d are a lot more intuitive and probably more than powerful enough for your needs.

Hmm, good way of looking at it! :)

I've been checking out Modo's tour (no trial version unfortuantely), and it looks really good!

You're right about 3ds Max... it's been around for ages and is very complex... I started using it on version 3, and even then it had a little complexity... now it's probably rediculous lol

And for Maya, yes, probably best suited for movies, etc... all I'll be doing is modelling and rendering models for games, etc.

Ok, so in this case, that means I can chop out those 2 from my list? :)

So max3d uses Cinema4D, and PaQ uses Modo (they're 2 users here that I've noticed what they use)...

Right now I'm almost convinced on Modo, because it looks fantastic from the tour.

So Cinema4D can compete, I assume? Their product tour isn't as good, but they have a trial, so I'm downloading that...

-EDIT-

So Modo vs Cinema4D - is it mainly just personal preference?

-EDIT 2-

After a bit of checking around, it appears that Cinema4D is much more popular than Modo... is there any reason for this?

Also, another general theme of what people are saying...

- Cinema4D is better for animation
- Modo is better for high-poly and character modelling / sculpting

i use cinema4d yes and it does everything i need it to do. its modular to so you dont need to buy everything at once. i did think about getting modo last year due to loving the quality of the renders coming straight out of it. at the end of the day its down to you mate its not about which one is better (in a way) its about how it fits around you and the price ;) download the demos and give each one a week. btw i have used 3ds max since it was in dos and it was my first true love till i went to my mistress c4d

edit: cinema 4d is a powerfull aplication and has been used on many a film one reason it could be more popular than modo and the other could be that modo is a new kid on the block and has had less time to build up its user base than the others inc c4d

Thanks max :)

Ok, so I'm still leaning towards Modo...

Also I just read this and it sounded good:
http://features.cgsociety.org/story_custom.php?story_id=5231

Modo seems to suit me I guess :)

I'm a modo user since last year (modo 301). Before that I used Carrara. Guess what, my shortlist was Cinema 4d and modo :-)

Max and Maya and XSI were never in running as the price was just way out of my reach.

I went with modo for the following reasons:

I like it - using modo is a joy (like MoI) - even if it crashes. I just like working in it. C4D was okay but that was all it was.
Price - To get the base app and all the plugins I wanted C4d was twice the price. As a hobby user still learning I couldn't see myself being able to afford to keep C4D up to date.
Renders - I liked the render quality.
All in one app - when you've bought it you've got it all. No plugin required just to get the best render, or hair/fur, etc.
Download - C4d wasn't download and needed a dongle
Licensing - modo is licensed to me and not my PC.
UV tools - were easy to use


One other point, modo doesn't have character animation (yet) so this is possibly why C4D seems more popular. I only do still images so I'm not bothered about that.


I really like modo. It has it's faults just like any app but it does what I need and 401 added a bunch of cool stuff that has moved it on a lot.

Hi NightCabbage,

Well I mainly use modo because of my lightwave background, it was easy to lean, well in fact if you're coming from lightwave there is nothing to learn :P
C4D seems quite good, but their module system is expensive, you need a least the 'advance rendering' one to do serious rendering job ... for my personnal
work it was too expensive. (But it seems to be a really robust package, make me think to a Mercedes car :P)

I do agree with ash about the modo key features, just as I'm a negative guy I will add few points

- Crashing software, so save often, and incrementally (allready had crash during saving, so the scene was corrupted)
- The rendering engine has some serious problem for the moment, Nan's (some kind of division by 0 resulting big pink pixels), noisy area lights, spec + soft reflection giving many troubles ... they are not many options to control, by that doesn't mean it's easy to master them and produce hyper realistic image.
- Hairs are ok for fur job, don't expect anything more.
- Probably related to my hardware, but the painting/sculpting module is not that great, just enough to paint some masks. Looks like it's better to rely on zbrush and the upcoming goz bridge system for any serious sculpting job anyway.

That's very useful - thank you both.

So it sounds like C4D is a more complete package, but also more expensive, harder to learn, and not as user-friendly.

I also won't really be doing character animation - just modelling (first job - space ships).

So it crashes fairly often, hey? Hmmm that's annoying... but then I'm kinda used to that. Sadly, many programs crash these days.

PaQ - are these rending problems a big deal at the moment? Hopefully they'll be fixed soon? maybe they don't happen very often? :)

(I'm hopeful lol)

So, it sounds like for me, as a relatively inexperienced modelling, doing fairly simple models, Modo will be a good choice. Is that right?

And yes, for actual sculpting or adding finer detail, I could just use ZBrush or Mudbox.

And of course I'll also be using MoI :)

BLENDER UNTIL THE REST SORT IT OUT :)

Nice Tiger !
If you dont have that much money you can always consider getting Silo2 pro ..
plus you can look into 3d Coat as a paintsoft and voxels and maybe look into Thea renderer that looks realy cool...

That's a coool render from Blender. I will be looking at blender again after 2.5 is released. I could never get along with the interface before. Blender is alway worth a look.

I have heard that if you start with Blender then it is fine - it is only if u come from another app that you have problems adapting.

NightCabbage - have you considered/looked at Blender?

Like Paq already mentioned, Modo still has some issues. In 302 I used to get blue spots, now i get pink spots in 401. It seems they didn't really fix the bug, they only changed his color! :)

If i were to consider buying an advanced animation package, I would seriously consider Max because I love using Brazil (amazing control of every function, STABLE engine, and proven film quality output). But i have no desire to feed the Autobeast. I wish Splutterfish would make a stand-alone engine with plug to Modo. I would buy it immediately.

@ neo - great looking tiger! change your name to neow :)

How do you guys get "jobs"? I'd like to break into the business. I'm a programmer by day, but I'd like to do some 3D stuff. I just dont have a clue of how to get someone to pay me to do it.

-TS-

>> PaQ - are these rending problems a big deal at the moment? Hopefully they'll be fixed soon? maybe they don't happen very often? :)

(I'm hopeful lol)

It doesn't append that often, but it's tricky to find a workaround, because you often have change your light settings. I allready know few stuff to avoid :

- over boosted environment settings, or using unclamped sky or sun.

I suppose it's also why a demo isn't out yet, they probably want to polish/fix it.


>> So, it sounds like for me, as a relatively inexperienced modelling, doing fairly simple models, Modo will be a good choice. Is that right?

Well it plays very well with MoI, thanks to Michael. The .lwo export is working perfectly, with nice ngones output, object names are translated into layers
and styles into surfaces ... great !

But you really should wait for a demo, because I know modo workflow do not allways pleased everyone. They are some notions you first have to fully understand
like actions centers, the toolpipe mainly for modeling tasks. Modo do not use any construction history, so when you drop a tool, you can't no more edit it.

Hi Neo,

Super cool fur job !!!
Blender is definitivally a great alternative, I will probably have a closer look at it when stuffs like that will be intergrated :

http://sites.google.com/a/ckbrd.de/blender---nurbs/nurbs-redesign

and especially the NURBS with Extraordinary Points: High-degree, Non-uniform, Rational Subdivision Schemes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYWQPnkjqgA

>>>NURBS with Extraordinary Points: High-degree, Non-uniform, Rational Subdivision Schemes

also the implementation openNURBS import/export is very cool for Rhino & MoI users...

3d-coat want also use Nurbs inside voxels ;)
http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3052

First stage - just import 3DM.
Second - manipulating nurbs surfaces in 3D-Coat shell

What about export - I will see how it goes.
Andrew