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 From:  nige (NIGEBABE)
2872.1 
Hi Michael,

First of all, congrats on a beautiful piece of software! I am a Lightwave/Modo user but have always wanted to use nurbs etc and MOI is the easiest and slickest way of getting into this way of modelling yet. It even works on my modest work laptop but runs superbly on an Apple Mac under Bootcamp.

My question is, can you fillet a revolved and/or lofted object onto a normal plane or box etc? I have been playing around with revolving an aircraft engine pod and then booleaning a fin onto it and then trying to get a nice fillet at the join but it will not work. I can fillet for example, one square into another or a sphere onto another sphere etc but a revolved or lofted object does not seem to want to fillet.

The attached jpeg shows an engine with the fin (circled red) that I want to fillet onto the engine case that was a revolved skin.

Thanks and keep the software coming.

Nigel


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 From:  BurrMan
2872.2 In reply to 2872.1 
Hi Nige,
Its hard to tell from just the picture whats going on, perhaps a model to demonstrate?

It looks like the little fin already has a fillet on the leading edge? This could make that little fillet at the intersection be reduced to a very small value. If it is, try insert the fin "before" you do a fillet on it then fillet those edges in that area.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2872.3 In reply to 2872.1 
Hi Nigel, I'm glad that you like MoI!

Yes like Burr mentions it is really hard to diagnose a problem from a screenshot. If it is possible can you please post a 3DM file with hopefully a small number of parts that would let us examine the geometry and make some suggestions?

From the screenshot though it looks like possibly the problem is that the fin may not be booleaned with the other piece - most of the time before filleting you will want to boolean objects together so that they connect in a single skin with edges between them.

If you just have 2 objects that happen to be sticking through each other but not connected to one another, that could get in the way of filleting (unless they are 2 single surfaces, it is possible to fillet 2 unconnected objects in that particular case).



> My question is, can you fillet a revolved and/or lofted object onto a normal
> plane or box etc?

Yes, you can normally fillet a revolved object and a box, although since a box has sharp corners in it, it will tend to create a more complex fillet result that has "corner patches" in it.

Here's an example of a revolved object and a box, which have been combined together with Boolean union:



Now the common edges can be selected and filleted:




I'm not sure if that is the kind of revolve + box type situation that you are thinking about though.

- Michael

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 From:  nige (NIGEBABE)
2872.4 In reply to 2872.2 
Hi Guys,

Thanks for the quick response. I am currently on business sat in a small B&B so I apologise for the simple jpegs. Attached is an example of a swept fin which I am trying to fillet at the join between it and the flat plane. Both have been booleaned first but I cannot get it to fillet. However, to show I can fillet (!) I have made a box fillet at the join with a plane and it works fine.

The first example I showed you was the engine pod which was a revolved curve and the small fins are a swept set of 3 curves as per this attachment.

I am in the UK so I might not pick up your response until tommorrow morning.

Nige
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2872.5 In reply to 2872.4 
Hi Nigel, the problem seems to be that the fin and the plane are not actually joined together...

It may be easier for you if you use a box rather than just a plane, because the boolean operations are more oriented towards combining volumes together and a single plane is not a closed volume.

When you do a boolean with a solid and a surface like this, the solid can get cut up but not necessarily combined automatically with the surface. Something like that happened in your case here, if you look at your fin from underneath you can see there is kind of a separate piece at the bottom sticking out:



So maybe select and delete that bottom extra piece to get it out of the way.

Then you are left with a plane that has a hole in it and the fin. But they are not connected together yet into a single object, for example if you click and drag on the plane you will see you can drag it around separately from the fin.

You need to connect these together into one joined piece, to do that select the fin and the plane and then use Edit/Join to glue them together at their common edges.

When you use surfaces in your modeling instead of only solids, you will often need to use Join to glue the pieces together.

Once those are joined, there will be a common edge that you can select:



And then fillet:




This all tends to be a bit easier if you work more with volumes, since the booleans can figure out which pieces to discard and which to glue together automatically more easily when the objects being booleaned are all solid volumes instead of surfaces.

When you work with surfaces instead of solids, you'll tend to need to use Join more often and sometimes it may be easier to use Trim to cut surfaces up rather than the booleans.

Hope this helps!

- Michael

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 From:  nige (NIGEBABE)
2872.6 In reply to 2872.5 
Many thanks Michael and it makes perfect sense. I am at work at the moment so will try it out later and report back.

Really enjoying using MoI.

Nige
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 From:  eddi
2872.7 
Hi Michael,

I have same lots of problems with Fillet, by time works!, sometimes not, pure gambling !!!



Problematic area is profileline (red)
This problem exists in all versions of Moi3d





Objects edited with spheres also provide strange results, here MergeCommand



I hope you can patch it soon. Other works fine,
-EDDI

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 From:  Michael Gibson
2872.8 In reply to 2872.7 
Hi Eddi, could you please post the 3DM model files for those objects that you are showing?

That helps a lot for me when analyzing problems, with an example model file I can actually try to see what is happening but it is hard to debug a screenshot only.

Unfortunately filleting problems tend to be very difficult to improve, most likely it will take some time for those things to get better.

- Michael
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 From:  eddi
2872.9 
Hi Michael
Here i send a few files for testing, try different values and modes.
Problems emerge, if near the profile edges. This restriction has existed since eternity.

-regards
-EDDI
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 From:  NightCabbage
2872.10 
Hmmm, testing fillet (using V1.1 demo)...

filletbu1.3dm
I can't fillet around the sphere shapes.

filletbu2.3dm
Seems to fillet perfectly.

filletbu3.3dm
Seems to fillet perfectly.

filletbu4.3dm
I can fillet around the blob shape, but I can't fillet around the sphere shape - nothing happens.

filletbu5.3dm
Seems to fillet ok... but I notice you have the lines broken up into a few pieces...

-EDIT-

Also, quick question Michael...

With filletbu5.3dm, as the following picture shows, the curve on top is made up of 3 curves...



Is there any way to connect them together?

I've tried join, but that just creates a new curve separate from the object itself...

EDITED: 27 Aug 2009 by NIGHTCABBAGE

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 From:  Michael Gibson
2872.11 In reply to 2872.10 
Hi NightCabbage,

> With filletbu5.3dm, as the following picture shows, the curve
> on top is made up of 3 curves...
>
> Is there any way to connect them together?

Not in v1, but in v2 there is a Merge command that can be used to glue a string of edges like that into one single edge, if they are tangent where they touch one another.

- Michael
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 From:  BurrMan
2872.12 In reply to 2872.10 
NightCabbage,
You havnt attached the files you are refering to?

FYI
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 From:  NightCabbage
2872.13 In reply to 2872.12 
Sorry Burr, I should have mentioned, I'm using the files that eddi attached :)
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 From:  BurrMan
2872.14 In reply to 2872.13 
OIC, My bad.
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 From:  BurrMan
2872.15 In reply to 2872.14 
NightCabbage,
In the first file, Notice the "Seam Edge" of the sphere is in line with the seam edge of the other object. I would bet that if that seam edge was rotated out of the edge of the other object before the boolean subtract, the fillet would be fine.

FYI
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 From:  BurrMan
2872.16 In reply to 2872.15 
For # 4, try select the "Face of the sphere shape and choose a .0669 fillet. THis works in V2.

[EDIT] .0866 works here too. I had Contsant distance set as an option. [EDIT]

EDITED: 27 Aug 2009 by BURRMAN

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 From:  NightCabbage
2872.17 
Ah, I think I've figured out why #4 won't fillet...

Fillet only works if it can perform the fillet on all edges / surfaces.

If you choose a number that would make the fillet overlep an edge or surface, it will not fillet.

So because you have previously filleted the little box shape next to the sphere, those little fillet surfaces (which are very small) are limiting your fillet so that it fits within that surface.
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 From:  BurrMan
2872.18 In reply to 2872.17 
Correct.
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 From:  eddi
2872.19 
Hi NightCabbage,
MoiV2 have more options than v1.
Example you can not test option ConstDist in fillet or merge command
I send another file, here you can see exactly one problem.(normal edge near profil edge)
In a complex model is profile edge a strong restriction for using fillet.

filletbu1 ---> nothing work
filletbu2 ---> nothing work with option "ConstDist" radius 2, radius 1 or 3 work, why ???
filletbu3 ---> radius 5, left edge work, reight not
filletbu4 ---> nothing work with option "ConstDist" radius 0,9 and greater
filletbu5 ---> nothing work with option "ConstDist"
filletbu5 and MergeB calculate not correctly with "MergeCommand"

-regards
-EDDI
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2872.20 In reply to 2872.19 
Hi Eddi, sorry I did not realize that you were talking mostly about constant distance filleting.

Yes I did notice when enabling it, that constant distance filleting seemed to be more sensitive than the regular method and failed in more cases.

I had thought about possibly not including it because of that, but it seemed like it still could be useful.

Do you think it would be better if I removed the constant distance option entirely rather than having it in its current state?

That's pretty much the choice I have right now - the stuff for filleting comes from the geometry library that I use and isn't code that I wrote directly myself, so generally I need to wait for updates from the company who makes that geometry library to get improvements in this area.

- Michael
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