Hi Brian,

If it's a memory problem, Peter's Moi page collect more less every scripts around with a good description of what it does.

http://kyticka.webzdarma.cz/3d/moi/

Looks like you trying to collect and maintain every scripts around, release after release, just for the pleasure of collect them ?
About the copier problem, maybe you forget that you're using a beta software ?

I can (somehow) understand you desagree about priority, but if you're alone to asking for something, you should
understand that the priotity for this feature is maybe pretty low, and asking for the same thing over and over will not change
the rate. You allready know that the shortcut/script delevery will be enhanced in the future, that's a good thing :)

Hi Brian, I just can't really make it any more simple that this: If you don't use those shortcuts, then why did you set them up?


If you don't use them and can't remember what they do, why not just remove them and then they won't be hanging around confusing you.

I just can't figure out why you have added in a bunch of shortcuts that you don't use.


> Like a huge proportion of you potential market for MoI perhaps?

No, not likely - out of all the people who are currently using MoI you seem to be the only person who thinks it is a really major issue.


- Michael

Quote------If you don't use those shortcuts, then why did you set them up?

Because, when I later come to find the shortcut I know SHOULD BE THERE--- THE DESCIPTION IS MEANINGLESS.

Michael----are you suggesting that those who own/use/want to use MoI are accurately represented by the FEW who actually use this (or any) forum?

It's why clever people are/need to be, part of a team where marketing managers have a say on directions.
(Many decades of experience!)

Enough--again.

Brian

Hi Brian,

> Because, when I later come to find the shortcut I know
> SHOULD BE THERE--- THE DESCIPTION IS MEANINGLESS.

If you have such a recurring problem remembering them, why not make a simple text document that keeps track of what you have added?

Everytime you add one, put a note to yourself in that document, so that you can go back later on and remember what it was that you set up.

That would be a pretty simple way to solve your problem.

Again, all of those shortcuts are ones that you decided to add...


> Michael----are you suggesting that those who own/use/want
> to use MoI are accurately represented by the FEW who actually
> use this (or any) forum?

No, not necessarily. But I'm confident that if the shortcut manager was really such a major issue I would have heard more about it from other people, either in the forum or through e-mail or some kind of communication.

So far it's just been one person who has had such a significant problem with it.

- Michael

The script isnt the "description" of the command. If those other apps you list actually exposed the code of the application as powerfully as MoI does, I think your head would explode! Listing AMAPI as an easy to use app is ridiculous. (Unless your in love with Kai Krause).

The commands "NAME" is what is descriptive and THATS what you need to remember. Just type "MERGE" and presto! The possibilities for scripts are endless, not a set few that get documented. If you want to be a "script junky" then you need to figure out how to manage that for yourself. It's a personal choice that isnt going to go away with a Carrara cutout cardboard.

If you cant rememeber ShrinkTrimmedSrf then you probably dont know what that means or why and where to use it so it's not needed.

I've explained how to put them into a file with a name of "Whatever you want"! You could name it "IWANTTOFILLET" and use that. Seems easy enough to remember "I want to fillet."

It just seems like all you want now is a beef?

You can name the file "WHATEVER YOU WANT TO NAME IT". Why is that hard?

Fillet
Light1
Light2
Merge
Etc....
Etc....
Etc....

Seems like childs play. :O

Hi Brian,

>> represented by the FEW who actually use this (or any) forum?

On this forum there are quit a few users who are willing to help you.
If you keep on nagging that way,sooner or later they will turn their
back on you.

Just take a nice bottle of beer...

>> It just seems like all you want now is a beef?

I've some trouble to translate this one =o)

PaQ - >> It just seems like all you want now is a beef?
I've some trouble to translate this one =o)

When someone has a "beef" with something or someone it is a "problem".

Like picking a fight :)

Actually it's a bit weird now that I think of it... beef...

"Where's the beef?" comes to mind XD

Sorry if my message is taken the wrong way.
I want MoI to be for the average 3d modeller/computer user.

Consider this,----- it directly relates to my "beef"

My 5 children (all now around 50, some with doctorates in computers, lecture 3d etc) all confirm that, though they use many apps, including 3D , at work, they are not given, or allowed, web access within thier orginisations.

What the app, as installed by management initially, is it!
If the basic HELP files, say, are not included?

And----?

One son, the major 3d worker, takes his special favourite apps to work on his laptop BUT, the only apps he has, or will use on it, are those that work effectively without web connections. He NEVER follows forums or accesses App web sites..

Maybe me and mine live on a different planet?

Brian

It's a bit tricky :)

These days the dynamics have changed a lot.

If someone has a problem with a program, or wants to know how to use something, they will go to some online source to find their answers - often a forum, or perhaps a wiki.

There is such a vast amount of information available on the internet that it isn't really worth the developer's time to try provide users with all the content they need, when it is already available through another source.

So then your children would just do a default install of MoI and not be in the forums confusing themselves with things they dont understand. (You should try this)

MoI as a default install is a nice powerful, feature rich package.

Your kids would not be confused about shortcuts.

The common, average user would also not be trying to do things they dont understand. THey would just run the installer and go to work! (You should try this).

Thanks for the 'beef' explanation, will try to place it in some conversation :)

@Brian

Actually basic help files are installed in your MoI 2.0 beta Aug-8-2009\docs ...

>> Maybe me and mine live on a different planet?

I think so, as NightCabbage said, learning experience has never been so easy and fast thanks to internet.
In fact never using any forums, application web site to keep you informed is somehow unprofessionnal these days.

Even more with MoI, I never been so close from developper with any other piece of software.
How many times Michael (and other smart users) teach you how to build this or that, which approach you should take,
what are possible workarounds when you're in trouble ? This is way more helpfull than any kind of help files for me ;)

Brian,

My apologies for my "Machine gun Google English", but not for my sarcasm/irony.

Here is the "Doctor solution" ;)

- Freeware/ Software linke IKSCAPE / Paint.Net...
- Draw a rectangle -> Monitor Resolution
- With copy and paste -> all your informations (All you need...)
- Create a *.jpg
- Use it as a desktop wallpaper and every time you can see all informations on your monitor.


To all ;)
Greetings from the round part of the earth in Germany/Bavaria.

I print my short cut's and stick them to my mouse pad after it's surface degraded over the years. I use spray mount.
Rainer

Burr wrote: "The common, average user would also not be trying to do things they dont understand. THey would just run the installer and go to work!"

TRUE! Many people I have met are completely unaware of most 3rd party plugins or free scripts. This seems especially true in CAD (more than the graphics industry)...

Again, sorry if I have seemed a PITA.

Over the weekend a group of visitors discussed problems with available CG apps.
They come from backgrounds in the Defence industry, national commercial manufacturing organisations, and within the national Health information(Doctors files access) distribution protocols.

I wish I could tell you of the things that happen----the only description is ---"OH! Shit" (seriously)

Anyway, it all adds to the point that the brilliance of MoI workings needs to be complemented with similarly balanced, inclusive, suplementary working information.

Brian

Hi Brian,

> Anyway, it all adds to the point that the brilliance of MoI
> workings needs to be complemented with similarly balanced,
> inclusive, suplementary working information.

Yup, I wholeheartedly agree!

That's why MoI includes a help file which you can read by pressing the help button which is located here:




Note that although that will open up your web browser, the web browser is reading locally installed files in this case, so you don't actually need to have an active Internet connection to read the help file, with the exception of the tutorial videos which are online only since they would otherwise greatly increase the installer size.


I'm not really sure what this has to do with your problem of not being able to remember which shortcuts you have set up.... Again, my best advice currently for that is to just keep a simple document where you put in a note to yourself on what each one does when you add it. In the future I'd like to make the shortcut system more refined, but just this simple step of keeping a note to yourself when you add in new entries should solve your problem.

- Michael

"the web browser is reading locally installed files in this case"

Michael
Sorry if you can not see the very, very obvious (to me) connection.

Brian
Please think hard and well about the many app users who may not use the web or access forums.
They are a lot of potential users.
(I don't want to follow the forum any more---it seems to be mainly repetition of old questions/answers in the main--time is too short---when I strike a problem I convert back to any app that is clearly working for me)

Hi Brian,

> Michael
> Sorry if you can not see the very, very obvious (to me) connection.

Is your concern addressed now that you know that you don't actually need to have an active internet connection in order to read the help file?


> Brian
> Please think hard and well about the many app users
> who may not use the web or access forums.

Yes, that's definitely good advice, and I have already followed it - that's why the help file (except for the videos) is included as part of the regular install, so that you do not need to have an internet connection to read it.

Is there something else that you think I need to take into account for users who do not have an internet connection?


Just to clarify - MoI does not need an internet connection to run. After you install it, it runs locally from your machine so you can run MoI and construct models, save files, read the help file, etc... on a machine that is not connected to the internet at all.

 
But probably in the future I will have a few more things that hook into some online components, like probably some kind of easier script installer that would have some UI that would make it easier to get scripts from an online script library. Things like that which may need to be updated frequently (to add new scripts on demand as people ask for various functions) tend to be practical to be focused on being online. That will just be one specific function though, even when that is in place, you'll still be able to run MoI and create models without being online.


I still don't really understand what this has to do with remembering keyboard shortcuts though, is there some connection with that?

- Michael