Like picking a fight :)

Actually it's a bit weird now that I think of it... beef...

"Where's the beef?" comes to mind XD

Sorry if my message is taken the wrong way.
I want MoI to be for the average 3d modeller/computer user.

Consider this,----- it directly relates to my "beef"

My 5 children (all now around 50, some with doctorates in computers, lecture 3d etc) all confirm that, though they use many apps, including 3D , at work, they are not given, or allowed, web access within thier orginisations.

What the app, as installed by management initially, is it!
If the basic HELP files, say, are not included?

And----?

One son, the major 3d worker, takes his special favourite apps to work on his laptop BUT, the only apps he has, or will use on it, are those that work effectively without web connections. He NEVER follows forums or accesses App web sites..

Maybe me and mine live on a different planet?

Brian

It's a bit tricky :)

These days the dynamics have changed a lot.

If someone has a problem with a program, or wants to know how to use something, they will go to some online source to find their answers - often a forum, or perhaps a wiki.

There is such a vast amount of information available on the internet that it isn't really worth the developer's time to try provide users with all the content they need, when it is already available through another source.

So then your children would just do a default install of MoI and not be in the forums confusing themselves with things they dont understand. (You should try this)

MoI as a default install is a nice powerful, feature rich package.

Your kids would not be confused about shortcuts.

The common, average user would also not be trying to do things they dont understand. THey would just run the installer and go to work! (You should try this).

Thanks for the 'beef' explanation, will try to place it in some conversation :)

@Brian

Actually basic help files are installed in your MoI 2.0 beta Aug-8-2009\docs ...

>> Maybe me and mine live on a different planet?

I think so, as NightCabbage said, learning experience has never been so easy and fast thanks to internet.
In fact never using any forums, application web site to keep you informed is somehow unprofessionnal these days.

Even more with MoI, I never been so close from developper with any other piece of software.
How many times Michael (and other smart users) teach you how to build this or that, which approach you should take,
what are possible workarounds when you're in trouble ? This is way more helpfull than any kind of help files for me ;)

Brian,

My apologies for my "Machine gun Google English", but not for my sarcasm/irony.

Here is the "Doctor solution" ;)

- Freeware/ Software linke IKSCAPE / Paint.Net...
- Draw a rectangle -> Monitor Resolution
- With copy and paste -> all your informations (All you need...)
- Create a *.jpg
- Use it as a desktop wallpaper and every time you can see all informations on your monitor.


To all ;)
Greetings from the round part of the earth in Germany/Bavaria.

I print my short cut's and stick them to my mouse pad after it's surface degraded over the years. I use spray mount.
Rainer

Burr wrote: "The common, average user would also not be trying to do things they dont understand. THey would just run the installer and go to work!"

TRUE! Many people I have met are completely unaware of most 3rd party plugins or free scripts. This seems especially true in CAD (more than the graphics industry)...

Again, sorry if I have seemed a PITA.

Over the weekend a group of visitors discussed problems with available CG apps.
They come from backgrounds in the Defence industry, national commercial manufacturing organisations, and within the national Health information(Doctors files access) distribution protocols.

I wish I could tell you of the things that happen----the only description is ---"OH! Shit" (seriously)

Anyway, it all adds to the point that the brilliance of MoI workings needs to be complemented with similarly balanced, inclusive, suplementary working information.

Brian

Hi Brian,

> Anyway, it all adds to the point that the brilliance of MoI
> workings needs to be complemented with similarly balanced,
> inclusive, suplementary working information.

Yup, I wholeheartedly agree!

That's why MoI includes a help file which you can read by pressing the help button which is located here:




Note that although that will open up your web browser, the web browser is reading locally installed files in this case, so you don't actually need to have an active Internet connection to read the help file, with the exception of the tutorial videos which are online only since they would otherwise greatly increase the installer size.


I'm not really sure what this has to do with your problem of not being able to remember which shortcuts you have set up.... Again, my best advice currently for that is to just keep a simple document where you put in a note to yourself on what each one does when you add it. In the future I'd like to make the shortcut system more refined, but just this simple step of keeping a note to yourself when you add in new entries should solve your problem.

- Michael

"the web browser is reading locally installed files in this case"

Michael
Sorry if you can not see the very, very obvious (to me) connection.

Brian
Please think hard and well about the many app users who may not use the web or access forums.
They are a lot of potential users.
(I don't want to follow the forum any more---it seems to be mainly repetition of old questions/answers in the main--time is too short---when I strike a problem I convert back to any app that is clearly working for me)

Hi Brian,

> Michael
> Sorry if you can not see the very, very obvious (to me) connection.

Is your concern addressed now that you know that you don't actually need to have an active internet connection in order to read the help file?


> Brian
> Please think hard and well about the many app users
> who may not use the web or access forums.

Yes, that's definitely good advice, and I have already followed it - that's why the help file (except for the videos) is included as part of the regular install, so that you do not need to have an internet connection to read it.

Is there something else that you think I need to take into account for users who do not have an internet connection?


Just to clarify - MoI does not need an internet connection to run. After you install it, it runs locally from your machine so you can run MoI and construct models, save files, read the help file, etc... on a machine that is not connected to the internet at all.

 
But probably in the future I will have a few more things that hook into some online components, like probably some kind of easier script installer that would have some UI that would make it easier to get scripts from an online script library. Things like that which may need to be updated frequently (to add new scripts on demand as people ask for various functions) tend to be practical to be focused on being online. That will just be one specific function though, even when that is in place, you'll still be able to run MoI and create models without being online.


I still don't really understand what this has to do with remembering keyboard shortcuts though, is there some connection with that?

- Michael

I think it boils down to ....... if you have buttons for it you dont have to need shortcuts......
But then buttons can clutter your workspace so you have to be carefull with to many of these.....
But couldnt that be done with an extra panel that you can fire up with only the plugins because
you wont be using them all the time and maybe 2-3 that you can choose from that you can integrate into your ususal panels..
Just a thought
Peter

Hi Peter, yup some kind of "plug-ins" pop up menu is definitely in the cards for the future.

I've been thinking it will probably be a button on the bottom toolbar next to Options, and that it would pop up a menu (kind of similar to how the File button) when you push it, with a list of installed plug-ins in it, and also one menu item that was something like "Plug-in manager" or something like that, which would pop up some kind manager dialog.

I'm not exactly sure when that will happen yet though.

- Michael