Feature Request - Multi Monitor support

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 From:  nukkle
2777.1 
Hi, will it be possible to implementate the feature of using moi3d on multiple monitors ?
Undocking windows, etc, so i can work in dual mode. Left monitor all my viewports right, all my other windows like lists, etc.

thanks
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2777.2 In reply to 2777.1 
Hi nukkle, I would like to do this in the future to make the UI more able to be re-arranged and docked to different monitors. But unfortunately it will take quite a large amount of work to make that happen so it will probably be quite a while before it will get done.

In MoI version 2, there is an option for switching the side pane tools to the left side of the screen, under Options / General / Side pane position. If you set that, then you could stretch MoI's window to span both monitors and have the tools on the left side one. That may get you close to what you want currently.

- Michael
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 From:  nukkle
2777.3 In reply to 2777.2 
i understand that such feature is not easy
but good to know that its not impossible

thank you
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 From:  Dave Morrill (DMORRILL)
2777.4 In reply to 2777.2 
Michael,

From my spelunking in the Javascript API, it seems like it would be possible for motivated users to do most of these things themselves using the current API. The only obvious omission I found was that there does not appear to be an HTML <tag> that can be used to create a new 3D editing view(port). Although I did manage to hack my version of MoI to contain two side by side 2x2 viewports (for a total of 8 3D viewports). But I could not find a way to embed a new viewport into a separate window.

Is there any reason not to define a <moi:Viewport> tag (or is it already defined, but not used)?

- Dave Morrill
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2777.5 In reply to 2777.4 
Hi Dave, instead of an HTML tag for viewports, there is an XML tag for it called <ViewPanel> in the very top level MainWindowLayout.xml file.

It can be a bit difficult to control the very top level window layout in HTML, so there is a custom layout mechanism to handle the particular needs of that. The view panel gets arranged with that layout mechanism rather than being embedded within an HTML panel.

I do intend to set up something in the future to allow for creating additional Top-level windows that have their own XML defined layouts, which could then specify view panels or HTML UI panels within them. That's the part that would allow for creating a second frame window with an additional set of viewports in it.

- Michael
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 From:  Dave Morrill (DMORRILL)
2777.6 In reply to 2777.5 
Michael,

Yes, I saw the <ViewPanel> XML tag, but it was not obvious how to create additional XML layouts. I guess you're confirming that it is not possible at the moment.

On a related note, it looks like the current browser is a version of IE 7.x. Is an IE 8.x based version on your radar?

- Dave Morrill
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2777.7 In reply to 2777.6 
Hi Dave,

> I guess you're confirming that it is not possible at the moment.

Yes, that's correct, currently only the main window is created using that kind of layout and there isn't any method yet to create additional ones.

When I add it, it will probably be something like:
moi.ui.createFrameWindow( 'filename.xml' );


> On a related note, it looks like the current browser is a version of IE 7.x.

Actually, it will just use whatever version of mshtml.dll is currently installed, whether it is IE6, IE7, or IE8.

- Michael
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 From:  Dave Morrill (DMORRILL)
2777.8 In reply to 2777.7 
> When I add it, it will probably be something like:
> moi.ui.createFrameWindow( 'filename.xml' );

OK, good.

> Actually, it will just use whatever version of mshtml.dll is currently installed, whether it is IE6, IE7, or IE8.

OK, also good to know. Although that could potentially lead to some breakage if people start using browser version dependent stuff in their CSS/HTML/JS and want to share their code with others. In particular, IE 6 is universally reviled as not being very standards compliant, while MS is touting how the opposite is true with IE 8.

Are there legal issues with you including a copy of mshtml.dll in your install? I also thought that in the EU MS had agreed to stop bundling IE with the OS (how's that for a lot of TLA's). Seems like that could be a nuisance as well...

- Dave Morrill
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2777.9 In reply to 2777.8 
> Although that could potentially lead to some breakage if people
> start using browser version dependent stuff in their CSS/HTML/JS
> and want to share their code with others.

Yeah, that's possible if someone ended up using more specialized HTML stuff.

But that's not really needed for the things that MoI uses - just the base IE6 level of stuff is actually fine for what MoI is doing. MoI just does not use it to make big intricate web pages - it's using it mostly to arrange text and controls at a kind of more granular level.

Also MoI relies more on custom drawn controls to handle quite a lot of things, rather than being totally dependent only on CSS.


> Are there legal issues with you including a copy of mshtml.dll
> in your install?

Yeah, it's pretty much classified as a system component and is not part of any redistributable package.

By default you can't just include copies of things that are copyrighted, in general you can only include things that have specifically been designated as redistributable which mshtml.dll has not been.


> I also thought that in the EU MS had agreed to stop bundling IE
> with the OS (how's that for a lot of TLA's). Seems like that could be
> a nuisance as well...

That "not bundled" thing probably means that iexplore.exe is not around, I kind of doubt that it means that all the lower level components such as mshtml.dll are not installed.

Otherwise quite a bunch of other things would stop working, like a whole bunch of help file reader stuff, etc...

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2777.10 In reply to 2777.9 
Hi Dave, also one more note on this:

> Although that could potentially lead to some breakage if people
> start using browser version dependent stuff in their CSS/HTML/JS
> and want to share their code with others.

One good way to avoid running into this when authoring your HTML is to use quirks mode.

That's when you don't have a <!DOCTYPE declaration before the <html> tag.

When in quirks mode, mshtml basically maintains the same legacy behavior for things like layout and various CSS stuff, so it makes for less chance of accidentally making a dependency on a specific version of IE.

- Michael
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 From:  Dave Morrill (DMORRILL)
2777.11 In reply to 2777.9 
> Yeah, that's possible if someone ended up using more specialized HTML stuff.

> But that's not really needed for the things that MoI uses - just the base IE6 level of stuff is actually fine for what MoI is doing. MoI just does not use it to make big intricate web pages - it's using it mostly to arrange text and controls at a kind of more granular level.

> Also MoI relies more on custom drawn controls to handle quite a lot of things, rather than being totally dependent only on CSS.

I agree with your statements insofar as they apply to the core MoI code. But it seems likely that users might start going further afield in their own extensions. I've already written some pop-up MoI windows that use standard HTML tags, custom CSS, some non-MoI ActiveX components, open-source Javascript toolkits, etc., and it all seems to work together fairly well. In cases like this, I would view standards compliance as a really good thing to have.

> Yeah, it's pretty much classified as a system component and is not part of any redistributable package.

I guess that's what I was wondering, if it was part of a redistributable package. Too bad.

> That "not bundled" thing probably means that iexplore.exe is not around, I kind of doubt that it means that all the lower level components such as mshtml.dll are not installed.

Duh! I guess I should have figured that one out myself. That's what happens when you only read the headlines :-)

- Dave Morrill
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 From:  Dave Morrill (DMORRILL)
2777.12 In reply to 2777.10 
> One good way to avoid running into this when authoring your HTML is to use quirks mode.

> That's when you don't have a <!DOCTYPE declaration before the <html> tag.

> When in quirks mode, mshtml basically maintains the same legacy behavior for things like layout and various CSS stuff, so it makes for less chance of accidentally making a dependency on a specific version of IE.

Hmm...I'm not sure I would agree with that being a "good" thing. In any case, it's not a huge deal. If someone writes a script requiring IE8, I'm sure if it's compelling enough, other people will upgrade if they need to. As you said, as long as you stick with "quirks" mode, you've insulated the MoI core from all of these issues. And I'm free to use IE 8 features in my scripts as I see fit. Sounds like win/win to me...

- Dave Morrill
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 From:  Dymaxion
2777.13 In reply to 2777.5 
Would it be possible to have one window which was completely stripped bare, with just the viewports, and to have all of the subsidiary control UI in a separate window? That seems like it should be doable, and while still not optimal, might be a step in the right direction for some users. Obviously, it'd be better for you to spend your time doing it right, when you have time, but if that's something that the existing UI supports, someone else might want to do that.

/Ella
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2777.14 In reply to 2777.13 
Hi Ella, yes I think it would probably be feasible to have something like that, check out this previous discussion for some ideas on putting the side pane into a dialog for example:

http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=1173.17

But it will probably be a bit difficult to make it work very smoothly, like remember positions when you start MoI up again, stuff like that.

- Michael
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