Because seems that is the only format between Moi and Revit who accept directly Nurbs !
DXF, DWG, DGN, SKP , SAT
It's for a French school of architecture and they want smooth forms of nurbs!
As Revit as basic nurbs they search a cool nurbs modeler for import it inside!
They have found your prog and bought several Moi :)
So will be cool that names are kept

Hi Pilou, I've sent a message to the developer who makes the SAT libraries that I use to see if it is possible for names to be supported.

I don't know yet if that is a limitation in SAT or a limitation in the library. If it is a limitation in SAT there may not be anything to do about it, but if it is a limitation in the library then that may be able to be improved.

Do they have any simple example files of SAT files from other programs that do have their names come through when imported into Revit? If so then if they could send it to me (moi@moi3d.com) that may help to figure out how the name is supposed to be set in the file so that Revit can see it. A simple file such as just a box or something would be best to make it easier to examine the file.

- Michael

OK!

Hi Pilou, I've heard back from the library developer.

He's not aware of any method available in SAT for storing object names.

But it is also a pretty poorly documented format, so it is possible that there is a method but he would need some example files that have names in them to study.

If those architects can find any SAT file (preferably a simple one, just like a box for example) that does preserve object names when imported into Revit, then please ask them to send it to me at moi@moi3d.com .

For example, what happens if you name an object in Revit, and export it to SAT, and then import it back into Revit, does it maintain the name? If so then please ask them to send me that SAT file.

- Michael

Hello,
I'm the architect Pilou talk about ;)
I teaching in a french school of architecture.

First of all, thank you Michael for MOI, a simple but powerfull nurbs modeler !!

My wish is to use MOI in architectural process, using it for volumetric modeling, without limit, and after, import it in Revit for architectural details and building information modeling.
Revit can import volume from DXF, DWG, DGN, SKP and SAT. So the only way to work with nurbs is SAT (perhaps DWG and DGN but need Autocad or Microstation, too complex and expensive).
In Revit, the surfaces of a volume can be transformed into wall, roof or window-wall, and floors can be automaticly create in the volume. It works so fine with SKP format, but you know the shape limit ;)

I'm testing MOI with the save disabled trial version, waiting for 4 full versions I ordered (for my school), so I can't test the file format, and of course can't test the V2 beta SAT file format.

So, after two tests we did with Pilou :
Revit seems to understand all nurbs surface. Some of them cant be transformed into wall but can be inot window-wall. Perhaps some curvature limit...
Revit cant find volume (only surfaces) and so cant understand inside and outside to create floors.
I dont know if is the SAT limit, Revit import limit or MOI export limit :S

I'll continue the test...
I dont know if Revit can export to SAT to test, but I have a trial version of Rhino to create some file.
I'm waiting for the MOI registration to dowload V2 beta and test with it (french school administrative way to buy software is not an express way :D )



(Link of the french thread with file test : http://moi3d.com/forum/messages.php?webtag=MOI_FRANCAIS&msg=175.1 )

Bonjour! I hope that MoI will be useful as a method to get some more freeform and unconventional shapes into Revit for you and your students!


> Revit cant find volume (only surfaces) and so cant understand
> inside and outside to create floors.
> I dont know if is the SAT limit, Revit import limit or MOI export limit :S

Hard to say for sure, but from some previous tests, it seems that Revit's import is still in the process of being refined and you may encounter some problems with it.

For example in this previous discussion thread:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=2634.1

we discovered that Revit version 2009 would not import some SAT files that were handled by Revit version 2010 .

So that's one major thing - you'll probably want to make sure you have the most recent version of Revit to have the best chance.


> I dont know if Revit can export to SAT to test

This seems to be available in Revit 2010 under File (in the corner) / Export / CAD formats / SAT here:




I only have the demo version so I am unable to test it myself.

But if you are able to export an named object from Revit to SAT format and then import that into a new Revit session with the names intact, then please send that SAT file to me so I can see what will work to preserve names into Revit. If you can do a simple shape like a box that would make it easier to examine the file.

But it does not seem common to have object names stored in SAT files from what I have seen with a few tests with some other ACIS-based modeling systems (SAT is the format of the ACIS geometry kernel), so it may not be possible.

- Michael

Hi Didler,
I dont know if you covered this, so let me know if you've already been over this.

The first model in the post you made was not a solid so the surface normals were off and it wouldnt be recognized as a volume. I did see and anomoly on the right side curved surface that I could not see or determine what it was from MoI. (It could have been something from my package that i looked at it with)



MoI has a neat script that will show naked edges and let you know where a surface is not a solid.

So I made it a solid and reviewded it and it looked much better



The second retest model looke nice from the git go.

Hi Мichael

So far i can attest that moi is pretty useless for us architects - for just one bitter point - inability to export versatile sats,

of course Revit has its limitations with sat importer, but somehow every other program managed to produce sats that actually work - some adjustments in geometry interpretation for sats might have been implemented or sat export libs convert apps data to a generally accepted format don't know - you could have been more accurate in understanding

I hate to use rhino for its being overly complex - but i cannot recommend my colleagues moi as a brilliant alternative - amd they keep on asking..

Our tests went on very primitive shapes - and if we go a little further and make a more or less complex vase for instance - its a complete no go for moi exporter no matter what revit ver is used 10 or 9 - I revert to rhino and make everything from scratch again - and then it imports correctly

being able to interchange nurbs between apps is very important..
even if take such a poorly dосumented format as sat.. We have rhino example which has no problems with sat and Autocad and any other app// - but MoI unfortunatelly has//

Well this is a pain to realise that such outstanding tool as MoI cannot be put to proper use in my field of practice. I'd say that 90% of all my modeling might go to MoI

From a marketing standpoint it also could be a mistake, cause even a small portion of revit users alone can vastly extend moi user database / and revit users have no choice for gods'sake but rhino

As for tests - try importing one of your own more or less complex models into revit (trial if you still have it) and see the result.

Regards
Igor

Hi Igor - It's pretty much impossible for me to do anything about that without having some examples of problems...

All the previous examples that you sent went into the new Revit 2010 fine, if you remember there was a discussion thread about that back here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=2634.1

So far I have not received any other examples of problem files.


The last problems that you sent in that thread above that did not come into Revit 2009 but did go into Revit 2010 also were properly formed SAT files that loaded into other SAT-based modelers without any problems. So as far as I could tell, Revit seems to have a pretty fragile importer that is still being worked on quite a bit, since there were definite improvements in version 2010.

It seems that Rhino will alter the geometry when you save to SAT to split closed surfaces into 2 joined halves, maybe there is something in Revit that does not handle closed surfaces well or something like that.

But I can only speculate when I only hear rumors of problems rather than having actual files that I can test with.

- Michael

>>As for tests - try importing one of your own more or less complex models into revit (trial if you still have it) and see the result.


Hi Igor,

I have not as yet seen any problems with sat export from MOI. Those exported sat files are imported into various other applications, such as Viacad Pro(Acis), solid_works and solid_edge, I have seen/hear no problem. Inventor 2010 does import sat files from MOI ok (certainly on the models made), but step files still cause it issue (even though I know the step files are OK and import into every other application checked).

Please do post an example file so a check can be made on its import into various other applications.


Regards,

- Steve

Hi Steve ! Welcome back :)

> Inventor 2010 does import sat files from MOI ok
> (certainly on the models made), but step files still
> cause it issue (even though I know the step
> files are OK and import into every other application checked).

That's surprising, I find *.step to be the most robust translator when importing into Industrial 3d CAD programs, I find it the next best translator to parasolid *.x_t


-

Hi Igor, for the next MoI v2 release I've updated the SAT export so that it will split closed surfaces (for example cylinders) into 2 halves rather than having a single closed surface that has a "seam edge" in it.

That appears to be one of the major problems with Revit, that it gets confused pretty easily when trying to read in surfaces like that.


I don't know yet if it will solve the particular problems you ran into because I did not receive any files from you to test with... But it appears to make a big difference with getting stuff over better.

It will be possible to turn off closed surface splitting by a setting in the moi.ini file.

- Michael

Hi Danny,

>>That's surprising, I find *.step to be the most robust translator when importing into Industrial 3d CAD programs, I find it the next best translator to parasolid *.x_t

Inventor will not import an exported Step file from MOI, even a cube gives error. Step AP203 from SW imports (on quick tests) OK.


I have been looking at importing a Sat file from Viacad(Acis) into Revit(demo), anything above sat V7 gives error, below V7 does import, but not an expected result, as example, a cube is imported as a rounded cube.

Looking at Inventor, that will import sat from MOI and sat V7 (and below) from Viacad(sat above V7 from Viacad is reported as "not supported")


- Steve

Hi Michael!

That's a huge step forward with sat export!!!
I tested it on 2009 ver and it went in perfectly!!! Just like rhino now!))

I now can't wait till you release next beta cause next week i start a new project and might already start using MoI heavily..

btw you mentioned that it will be an option in moi and now you say that it will be switched on by default.. Will such spliting affect performance of a MoI model? when it will be preferrable not to have it switched on?

Thanks
Igor

Hi Igor,

> Will such spliting affect performance of a MoI model? when it
> will be preferrable not to have it switched on?

Well, the main thing is it alters topology - things like edges that cross the split line will be split into 2 edges rather than staying as one long edge.

It can be nice to keep edges longer when possible, it makes some kinds of operations that work by selecting edges such as fillets to be handled easier since there are less pieces to pick.

I don't think that you will have much choice but to leave it enabled for going into Revit though, since Revit just does not seem to handle closed surfaces.

- Michael