With the inline browser I sometime get double scroll bars, one for all the tabs and one for the browser.
Maybe it could be limited to only one?




Some small details...

I agree with Thomas about the brilliant part and also on the tabs shape topic. Maybe the 'legs' could be smaller and not proportional.
I get a strange impression with the empty space created under the browser in adjacent mode, it's quite large when unexpanded.

Maybe the browser background could stretch down to the viewport length.
Also a line under tabs could help visually separating sections. (see image).











It's a massive improvement on organizing and displaying objects, I didn't had the chance to do a complex project yet but I get the impression this tool will be super-flexible, it sure open ways to manage uber-complex projects!

The sweep motion works great!

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but maybe right clicking on the browser button could open it inline or vice-versa..

Great work!

Marc

I was thinking that I might be a good thing if "types" should be the first Item in the list and expanded by default...

Marc

Hi Michael,

Sorry if this has already been reported, but if I read all of these posts to find out, my head will explode. :-)

Anywho, if you create a solid, like a box, then select one of its edges, and change the layer of said edge to some different layer, it kind of gets stuck in limbo and you cant touch it.

Let me know if you need further clarification.

thanks,

Nick

Hi Marc, thanks for the feedback!

> With the inline browser I sometime get double scroll
> bars, one for all the tabs and one for the browser.

What is your monitor's screen resolution?

I think this should not generally happen if you have a pretty high resolution screen, where there is a lot of empty space under the Construct/Transform tools, that's basically where the "inline" mode is meant to be used with.

The inline browser is limited to a maximum size of 40% of the main window's height - any larger than that and it will get its own internal scroll bar. But if that 40% size does not fit you will get the double scroll bar.

You can adjust the percent though in moi.ini, look in the [UI] section, for this:
InlineBrowserMaxPercentHeight=40

Maybe with your screen resolution / UI size, something like 30% limit would work better and limit the browser from going off the bottom of your side pane.


> I agree with Thomas about the brilliant part and also on the
> tabs shape topic. Maybe the 'legs' could be smaller and not
> proportional.

What you show there is similar to what I had earlier, here is the early version (to the left) along side the newer one:



The previous one felt kind of "blocky", but maybe it is a bit better.

The tail part is actually not proportional, which is probably the issue - when your text becomes small the fixed "tail" size can maybe be too long in proportion to the whole header.


> Maybe the browser background could stretch down to the viewport length.

Hmm, I don't know - that would make for different behavior with the other palettes, which have that exact same background only extend to cover their content. For example in your screenshot the bottom palette for Construct/Transform that is collapsed does not have its background stretch down to the bottom of the side pane.


> I get a strange impression with the empty space created
> under the browser in adjacent mode, it's quite large when
> unexpanded.

Hmm, there still seems to be a kind of empty feeling with the one you show there with it extended... It instead looks like a palette with a big empty section within it, which they don't normally have.

That may be hard to avoid the empty feeling when the area is actually empty of stuff.


> Also a line under tabs could help visually separating sections. (see image).

That looks really good! I think I will give that one a try - a little more indentation of the tab part looks good, I was trying to get something similar to that with the longer swoop coming in from the right side and narrowing down, but having an actual divider line rather than a narrow swoop looks better.


> I don't know if it's been mentioned, but maybe right clicking on
> the browser button could open it inline or vice-versa..

Well, the browser button disappears when you switch to inline mode, so that would maybe be a little weird to have the thing you clicked on kind of vaporize.

Probably under normal use (rather than "kicking the tires use") it will not really be frequent to switch between these modes on a rapid basis.

But if for some reason you do want to flip it back and forth quickly, you can set up a keyboard shortcut to do that, use this script as the command part of the shortcut:

script:moi.ui.browserPosition=(moi.ui.browserPosition == 'Adjacent' ? 'Inside' : 'Adjacent');


Thanks for the feedback Marc, I think that your header design looks better, the key thing there is the dividing line does a better job of what I was trying to do just with the sloping tail.

- Michael

Hi Nick,

> Anywho, if you create a solid, like a box, then select
> one of its edges, and change the layer of said edge to
> some different layer, it kind of gets stuck in limbo and
> you cant touch it.

I'm going to need some more details on this one - I can't seem to repeat the problem over here.

There are 2 different ways to set the style, one is by clicking on a style's swatch in the browser, and the other is by using the style flyout menu from the properties panel (where it shows the name, type, and size of the current selected object also).

Does one method work for you but not the other?

And what do you mean that you can't touch it - you mean that it will not select? And do you mean the whole box will not select, or just not that edge?

- Michael

Hi Michael, this was experienced at 1440x900.
I often crank up resolution when doing more elaborate work.

""For example in your screenshot the bottom palette for Construct/Transform that is collapsed does not have its background stretch down to the bottom of the side pane.""

Yes it was just the combined effect of the two spaces, Nothing too dramatic here...

""Probably under normal use (rather than "kicking the tires use")""

Right :-)


I did not noticed the button disappears when inline.


Marc

Hi Marc,

> Hi Michael, this was experienced at 1440x900.

Yeah the "inline" mode is not really designed to be used in lower than 1200 vertical pixel resolution or so.

It won't really fit well if there is not plenty of vertical space available - it's meant to be used with systems where there was previously a large open space under the "Construct/Transform" tools even when all palettes were open.

It may work with a lower resolution system if you lower the maximum percentage height to be quite a bit lower than the default, like maybe 15 or 20% instead of the default 40% height limit, but that means it will be limited to a pretty small exposed area with quite a lot of scrolling needed inside of it to get to various things. It is generally intended to use the "adjacent" mode instead for lower vertical resolutions.

- Michael

Not yet tested but...
does it possible to have a little video with the functions of the Object system? ;)
(because yet 70 messages to read :)

Hi Pilou, see this particular message:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=2570.18

for an overview of how it works, like what actions are available, etc...

- Michael

Thanks again Michael G. !!!

I look forward to testing this out!

Michael T.

Michael
Thanks for that thread sellection you gave for Pilou.

As I have said before I can not see a great value of it for me--at this point in time!

However , the list of the other modifications in this Beta would be appreciated. (Have I missed it?)

Maybe put on a separate thread?

Brian

Hi Michael,

Sorry I was vague on the details of my report. I figured you'd say 'yes, i know'. ;-)

-Nick

Hi Brian,

> However , the list of the other modifications in this
> Beta would be appreciated. (Have I missed it?)

I almost have it done, should be ready with that a bit later tonight.

There is quite a bit of other stuff actually, and a lot of bug fixes.

- Michael

Hi Nick - I see what you mean now, sorry I did not know it involved hiding the solid part.

Yes that is a problem currently that if the parent solid of an edge is hidden, then the you can't select that edge with the mouse.

That's actually been a limitation for quite a while but before now it was not quite so easy to hide everything else other than one edge. So it is kind of more noticeable now.

You can get out of that problem by showing the solid, once it is shown then you should be able to select the edge as usual. For now that is the workaround but I think I will be fixing this one up.

- Michael

Yeah, sorry I didnt completely describe it properly to you. That Jing gets the job done! ;)

Hi Michael,

> But it should not be difficult for me to put
> in at least an .ini option that would cause
> edges to be drawn using style 0 (named "default" by default).

Perfect! Thanks

-

Is the "single object can belong to more than one Style" still waiting to be implemented?

Hey there Burr, I missed you mate.

Do you mean, Is the "single object can belong to more than one Group" still waiting to be implemented?

If so, I believe so, the 'Group' section is not functional yet for this beta.
If not, you can apply different styles to an object, like a cube can have each face a different style (6 colours) and same with the edges, but as you know surface colours are coming later so you won't see anything, when you apply a style to a single solid surface, it's applied a style, just not visually yet.
Otherwise I don't think it's possible to have a single entity take on more than one style, unless I've missed something.

Cheers

Hi Danny,
I may have misinterpreted but I thought it was "Styles". Everyone was asking for "Layers" and Michael said "Styles would be in place of layers with out the limitation of layers and the one object, one layer thing.

So I was under the impression it would be Styles and the front tire can belong to the tires style but also the front of car one.

But it does sound like I'm talking about groups. so I could just be confused. And I know Groups is yet to come.

Anyway, it wouldnt be the first time I was confused! :O

Hi Burr, yeah Danny has that sorted out - the plan is that it will be Groups that will allow for additional flexibility of being able to have an object belong to more than one of them.

> Styles would be in place of layers with out the limitation
> of layers and the one object, one layer thing.

What I was trying to say earlier about that stuff was that I wanted to have some available method of organizing objects that does not have that limitation...

The idea is that Groups would be that method.

Groups should end up functioning in a generally similar way as styles, like there will be eyes to click on to hide/show... But they will allow for some more flexibility than the styles. Styles do share the limitation of "traditional" layers of only being able to have one style per object (or sub-object).

It doesn't really work well to have one object belong to more than one style at the same time since the style controls the visual appearance of the object, like something assigned to the style "Blue" will show up colored blue on the screen. Something assigned to "Red" will show up as red on the screen (or they will once the shaded display is working for that, currently the wire display will show it though). If there was a way to assign an object to be both "Blue" and "Red" at the same time, then which color would you expect to see on the screen? Since that does not really work styles are limited to only one per object but then Groups should provide the same kind of interface with the same abilities to hide/show, select/deselect but without that restriction.

I still have a few details to work out for Groups though.

The thing that I was mentioning about not liking layers so much is when that is the only way provided to do this kind of hide/show things in a list, but has that "object can only be assigned to one" limitation.

That's why I want to have some other sections of the browser that you can use instead of only one section. Each section can give some slightly different organization methods but all still have a consistent UI and actions that can be applied like hide/show, select/deselect.

- Michael