MOI3D mesher plugin for Rhino? Closed
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2398.83 In reply to 2398.82 
Hi jonah,

> Didn't I read that your school project was a polygon modeler?

Yup, that was Sculptura.


> Did any of it's workflow trickle into MoI? Or was it a completely
> different animal (sorry for the bad pun)?

No, not really, it was pretty different. I mean this was way back in 1992 so it was pretty primitive.

The system requirements were:
386sx or better processor
Windows 3.1
4 MB memory
Hard Disk
A 256 color display and a math co-processor are recommended.


> Would be interesting to
> see the type of work it was able to produce back then... :)

One thing that it did have in common was a sort of general idea to try to do things quickly, there was a "conform to outline" tool in it where you could sketch a closed outline in one of the 2D views (the 3D view back then was for visual feedback only and not drawing in directly), and mesh vertices would travel towards a "local origin" point until they hit that outline. So you could repeat that in a couple of different views to kind of sketch/carve the vertices to some blobby shape pretty quickly, that was kind of interesting.

At the time there was not even anything really available for Windows at all, that was the time of 3DS DOS, so having anything 3D at all on Windows was kind of cool...

You could then save your scene out to POV-Ray or Vivid formats for fancier renders.

But it mostly served as a learning experience.

The first place that I gave a public demo was at the Olympia AutoCAD User's Group meeting and Bob McNeel and several other RMA people were there, at the time their main business was that they were an AutoCAD dealer. That's how I got hooked up with them, they became the distributors for Sculptura and I started working there as an intern initially. After I finished Sculptura 1.1, I threw everything out and then started Sculptura 2.0 from scratch and that is what turned into Rhino.

- Michael
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 From:  BurrMan
2398.84 In reply to 2398.83 
With your unique experience, knowing the initial creation of it, can you see limitations that are there, that cant be easily overcome, because of the initial design and thought process?
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
2398.85 In reply to 2398.84 
Philosophies?
(Is there a trend for Americans to want to emigrate to get work?)

Go to "-----" and with the same US income you would live twice as well---and, then if you reduced a product price you might sell twice as much even in the USA---"compound interest"--billionaires overnight!

It works for the likes of Nike!

It's all relative--

But good fun keeping the mind working.

Brian
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 From:  Micha
2398.86 In reply to 2398.81 
From: BurrMan
"Oh wait, you have some German customers. it's ok to charge them 3000.00 per copy as they have the largest GDP. (Those selfish people) Continue programming."

Do you belive Luxembourg is the same like germany. Hey, germany isn't at the list.

PS: Something is wrong with the list.
PS2: So far I know any software can be bought for some dollars in Asia.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2398.87 In reply to 2398.84 
Hi Burr,

> can you see limitations that are there, that cant be easily
> overcome, because of the initial design and thought process?

Yup, definitely - and it took quite a bit of work to eliminate many of these for MoI's design.

One of the big ones is that Rhino depends mostly on a command being run first to set the context of how selection will work.

Like for instance in Rhino if you want to fillet the edges of a solid, you run the "FilletEdge" command first, then that prompts you to select edges. Then at that point if you do simple left-clicks it will select edges. So your selection clicks behave differently if you do them before you run the command as compared to while you are inside of the command.

This kind of made sense from a development point of view, since it meant each command can be pretty streamlined since each command is more narrowly focused. That's why I went in this direction, it kind of seemed at the time to be a simplifying path.

But overall it ends up causing problems from a UI point of view because it means it can be hard to combine multiple things into just one command, so instead there are a whole lot of separate commands, which means a whole lot of menu items, a whole lot of toolbar buttons, etc...

For example in Rhino there are 4 commands for filleting tasks: Fillet (for filleting 2 curves like 2 lines), FilletSrf, FilletEdge, and FilletCorners (corners of a polyline). In MoI these are all handled by one Fillet command instead, so that enables quite a lot of reduction of UI.

Some other workflow problems in Rhino are hard to get rid of because I set up some actions to be primarily compatible with AutoCAD so they kind of follow a different pattern. This is the reason for example why in Rhino the "Trim" command works kind of in the reverse way from "Split" - for Split you select the object that will be cut, and then cutting objects but for Trim you do it in the reverse order. This is because Trim was set up to be compatible to AutoCAD. Being compatible with AutoCAD is not 100% bad though, I mean for AutoCAD users it is great, and since McNeel is very much steeped in AutoCAD stuff from being a long time dealer, it was a good fit for the company there to be focused on that. But it definitely had some long term consequences as well that are hard to get rid of.

There are quite a number of these kinds of things, like another one in Rhino is that before a command is run you can't select a curve that has points turned on, you can only select its points and not the curve itself. I was worried about potential ambiguity between full object and point selection, but that turned out to be a mistake...

- Michael
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Message 2398.88 deleted 16 Feb 2009 by BURRMAN

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 From:  BurrMan
2398.89 In reply to 2398.86 
""""""Do you belive Luxembourg is the same like germany. Hey, germany isn't at the list!

That seems to be my error! No offense, I didnt really mean it.

"""""PS: Something is wrong with the list.

Lists like that are made by people that want to prove what they are saying. My list looks different.

Thanks for the clarification! :)
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
2398.90 In reply to 2398.89 
"See, you can’t go to “….” And make what I make"

Come on mate----(I scrubbed the reply---just can not believe your response)
I give up. Is it a USA thing?

Brian
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 From:  PaQ
2398.91 
http://www.dallasfed.org/research/eclett/2008/el0809.html

Why not using the bigmac as currency, so 33 bigmac for an upgrade ... pretty fair ... (do you like bigmac Michael ?)
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 From:  okapi
2398.92 
wow, this thread has left on such a tangent, it is just becoming ridiculous.
Let's just recapitulate and move on:

1. Moi is a pretty incredible value for the little money you pay for it.
2. If you think it is too expensive, just don't buy it. Have a look at the price of other software in general though before making any statements about its price.
3. If you do anything somewhat related to 3d professionally though, it is a no-brainer. If you disagree, then you should really re-consider your business model....

4. It does some things extremely well: UI, workflow, snaps, Mesh output (amongst others).
5. is also one of the most intuitive modeling programs to learn.

6. The price will go up as the software grows, which seems logical.
7. Micheal offers excellent support; but this is a one man team, and he cannot grant all wishes. He has to also earn a living from his effort.

Move on people ....-
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2398.93 In reply to 2398.92 
Great summary okapi, thanks!

On that note I'm going to close this thread off for further posts, to help cool things off. It has churned around enough by now I think!

- Michael
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