Hi Kevin, yeah basically control point manipulation of surfaces is not really a fully finished area in MoI yet.

For the most part I kind of assume that if you are really interested in 3D point grid manipulation type modeling that you'll be using a sub-d type modeling system instead of MoI because the mechanism that is used in sub-d lends itself really well to that particular kind of thing.

But there certainly can be situations where NURBS control point manipulation can be useful, so I do want to tune up this area. It just hasn't been a priority initially in MoI, instead the priority has been in the areas where NURBS are particularly strong like booleans and cutting operations for example.

The big limitation with NURBS surface control point manipulation is that a NURBS surface is defined by a kind of 2d UV grid of points. That means when you want to add points (when that is working in MoI) you can't just add 1 single point in somewhere, you have to add in a whole row or column of points at a time. Sub-d on the other hand lets you add in just individual points where you might want them, that is kind of the key reason why it tends to be used more often for this kind of thing.


It sounds like you understand all this already, I just wanted to confirm that what you were mentioning is accurate.


- Michael

Burr
Re the movie tute
(OK--Brian is stupid and dumnnnnnn and having a bad day, and the Coopers are not cold enough!)

Please----In this point in the movie--HOW did you RAISE those points like that ( and later, perhaps, doing a bit of lowering)--I can do some of that with no trouble with say a sphere with points!

Brian
(I can only get an edge raise)

Hi Brian,
It's not dumb when you cant see the whole screen.

I'm actually using Petr's "Nudge Tool". So if I show points, then select a single point, I can "Nudge it in any direction". In the Video I used "Nudge zup" which moves in the Z up direction. Also "Nudge zdown".

Thanks Burr
((?see whole screen))

Can you understand why I am spitting blood though?
(In what other app would I have to go through through the complexity of finding that and installing it into my working proceedures?)

The gap in understanding really surprises me.

Sorry if I appear such an old grump.

Brian

Hi Brian, I have been thinking of probably adding Nudge in as one of the default shortcuts.

But we did recently (yesterday??) just have a pretty long discussion about keyboard shortcuts, if you need to refer back to the answer, you can read it again here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=2333.60

I'm really not quite sure why you are showing screenshots of other app's keyboard settings managers.... If those other apps work better for you, then there is an easy solution to your problem - just use those other apps and you should then get what you need.

- Michael

Gaps in understanding are not related to age.

Brian

Hi Brian, I have to admit I am completely perplexed and mystified as to why you have such an intensive recurring focus on the keyboard shortcuts.

It is actually a pretty simple procedure to set them up - if you want to have nudging, you copy 1 file named Nudge.js into one folder, then you go in and add a few entries in the shortcut key manager to make a key that will be connected to that file.

Copying a file should be a very simple action that I am very surprised makes you so frustrated.

If you have never learned how to copy a file from one place to another, it would definitely be a good idea to learn how to do that because it will come up pretty often just in many basic tasks on your computer, totally separate from using MoI.

And actually once you have done the procedure to set up a keyboard shortcut one time for v1, you will not need to do it anymore, because with each of the recent betas I have made a helper program (actually I made it specifically to help you) that you can run which will copy the files from the MoI v1 folder into the latest beta's folder.

So after it is set up once for v1 after that you only have to run the script copier program and that's it!

If this is too complex for you, then I'm sorry - I guess it means that MoI is too complex for you and you should stop using it and use one of the other programs instead which you keep referring to.

It is not likely that I will be able to focus a lot of time on the shortcut key editor anytime soon, I discussed this in great detail in the previous message here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=2333.60

If you find MoI to be too frustrating to use, I can certainly understand and I won't take it personally! I have long ago come to terms with the idea that my software will not be perfect for everyone.

- Michael

Brian,
You did ask how "I" did it though. Normally in MoI, if you wanted to move something, you would use the MoI command for Moving something:



It's pretty obvious what command in MoI "Moves" things. I think it is documented well also.

It just so happens that there's this really cool developer of third party apps for MoI Named Petr! I use some of HIS tools and I had to go out and get them and install them.

Do you have "Inagoni Shaders" for Carrara? I do. I had to go "Purchase" them from another web site and "Install" them into Carrara. There was documentation on how to install them as they didnt magically appear in the Carrara user interface when I gave them my credit card.

I also have "Archi Tools". Same process. There wasnt even any keyboard shortcuts in Carrara for me to use Archi Tools. I had to make my own.

Get it?

Oh Yeah,



Pretty Clear!!!

Thanks Burr

I am so sorry that Michael seems to take things as a personal "complaint" rather than "another point of view"--I ,really, am trying to help "understanding"-- SERIOUSLY--that I live through tomorrow is a miracle---I have no axe to grind---I have NO agenda!.

NOW -- I want to add that Z thing to do that thingy in your vid--and I have a "JS" thinghy and NO idea what to do with it next

Arrrrhhh

A good Aussie saying "bugger!"

Brian

Hi Brian, well do you have the file named Nudge.js ?

Can you copy that file into the commands folder? The commands folder for the new v2 beta is located here:

C:\Program Files\MoI 2.0 beta Jan-19-2009\commands


If you can do that step, then we can go to the next step with setting up the keyboard shortcuts.

If you do not understand how to copy a file to a certain folder, then there is not much hope to get it done I'm afraid!

If you think that copying a file is complicated, I sure don't understand how you've been able to learn how to do 3D modeling... It is amazing to me that you've made such progress doing 3D stuff (and you definitely have, your models have grown more sophisticated and cleaner over time) but get upset about copying a file!

- Michael

Michael

I remember, back in the 1940s, when Algebra was added to our maths learning.
In the first three quarters of the year I was bottom of the class.
THEN it jelled!--and, at the end of the year, I was top of the class!

What was the "medium of understanding" that provided that "jell" factor?

Brian

ps More laughs about life!---I went on to enjoy playing around with Calculus.
BUT, the real laugh, in my very early 20s,---- in one of Aussies biggest companies,----
I was asked if I had an University education!

They asked, would you believe, because I regularly used a Slide Rule!

I AM NOT MAKING THAT UP!

Hi Michael

Yep, I've spent quite a bit of time polymodelling so fully understand its strengths and weaknesses against nurbs.

As far as wanting to do control point manipulation goes the main reason for wanting to use it is the standard nurbs tools can create most of surfaces I want quickly and efficiently but there are just a couple of surfaces that control point manipulation is the ideal solution to avoid a quilted patchwork of surfaces that don't have continuity.

While being able to add additional points on surface exactly where you need them would be fantastic I think adding extra rows of points would be fine. Also having a type of specialised control point manipulation/tweaking tools would be good also. Anyway well wait to see what you come up with in future versions of MoI in this regard.

Indeed

thanks Michael, I'm learning something every day here..