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 From:  EdwinKlijn (EDWINTSI)
230.1 
Hi Michael, could you look into/implement these features?

- A "scene" browser with group functionality
reason: A model can be build from hundred parts. A part can be created by multiple "splines"
It would be great to group the splines AND the part into one (nameable) group so i can quickly jump to a part without searching the model itself.

- Camera control defineable or like Lightwave / Modo.
reason: i'm used to work with both Lightwave and Modo. Both have the same camera-controls (zoom, pan, rotate).
Is it possible to let the user define these controls? Right now i often press the wrong keys in Moi3d but ALSO in Lightwave and Modo :-)

- Simple coloring of parts.
reason: it's easier to spot parts within a model. Also, make lines a different color then parts.
A swept model could be grey but the lines that BUILT the model blue.

- Control handles
reason: i understand Moi3d is built with a tablet in mind but it would be handy (and easy) for mouse users to have handles when modifying a model.

- A "scale to" function
THis is something REALLY cool i often use in Modo (with a plug-in). It lets you select a line of a model, select "scale to" and enter the size the line should be. The rest of the model is scaled accordingly. Example: I have modeled a house. The house doesn't have windows yet, but it does have the rectangle cut out off the wall. I can then select a line of that rectangle and i see it's 20,5 units wide. Then i start modeling a window in a new file. When i'm done i select a line of that window, tell Moi3d it should be 20,5 units wide and the entire window is scaled (proportional) as well. I now have a perfectly fitting window without constantly having to measure my work. I hope this makes sense :-)

probably more comming in a couple of days :-)

Edwin

ps. is it an idea to make a roadmap with features you want to implement? Maybe a sticky on the forum where people can add requests?
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 From:  Michael Gibson
230.2 In reply to 230.1 
HI Edwin, thank you for your feedback!


> - A "scene" browser with group functionality

I want to do this one eventually, but it will probably be a while because it is such a major piece of user interface work. Major user interface pieces tend to be very time consuming work on my part, so they tend to get postponed a bit.


> - Camera control defineable or like Lightwave / Modo.

I should be able to do something about this. How do the controls for zoom, pan, and rotate work in Lightwave/Modo ?


> - Simple coloring of parts.

I want to do this one eventually as well, but it is kind of in a larger category of providing and editing object properties, which is again a bit of a significant interface area.


> - Control handles

I guess this is a recurring theme... Another area that I want to do eventually but will come in a bit slowly. I'm rather thinking of having something a bit more like an Illustrator type frame handles here. But this will be for handling rotation and scaling only, moving objects doesn't require a handle because you just drag on an object already to do that.


> - A "scale to" function

This one is possible using MoI's current scale tool. In fact, you can do it using one less step than you describe there, because you don't even need to do a measurement of the existing object to find out its numeric size.

Here's what you do - move your window so that it shares a corner with the hole in the wall that you want to fit it to. Then run Transform/Scale. Pick the shared corner as the origin point. For the first reference point, grab the end of the window, and for the second reference point grab the end of the hole in the wall.

Scale is set up this way so that you can do a quick measurement built into the tool and scale things to fit relative to existing geometry.

Please let me know if you need more details on how this works.


> ps. is it an idea to make a roadmap with features you want to implement?
> Maybe a sticky on the forum where people can add requests?

This is assuming I have a roadmap... :) I don't exactly have a very fixed roadmap, more of just a general sense of direction. Things are rather fluid, things change quite a bit depending on a combination of what most people are asking for and also what things have had their design solidify the most.

The roadmap is more set for stuff that is happening soon. Like I can tell you that the next beta release is focused on finishing up the mesh export stuff, including bug fixes and some new meshing controls. Then the one after that will have some of the most frequently requested features in it which includes arrays/replication and image backgrounds at the top of the list.

I kind of like to get requests just as freeform discussion like you have done here.

- Michael
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 From:  EdwinKlijn (EDWINTSI)
230.3 In reply to 230.2 
The camera control is almost there :-)

ALT + mouse = rotate
ALT + CTRL + Mouse = zoom in/out
ALT + SHIFT + Mouse = rotate

Great scaling trick, thx (sometimes the answer is soooo easy :-)

One small thing i encountered today.
Every object i copied in Moi3d has it's polys flipped in Modo.
Not a big problem, just double-click in Modo and flip normals, but it's weird :-)
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 From:  Michael Gibson
230.4 In reply to 230.3 
> ALT + mouse = rotate
> ALT + CTRL + Mouse = zoom in/out
> ALT + SHIFT + Mouse = rotate

One of these must actually be pan instead, right?


> Every object i copied in Moi3d has it's polys flipped in Modo.
> Not a big problem, just double-click in Modo and flip normals, but it's weird :-)

Do you mean the original object has one direction, and an object that is copied from it has the reverse direction?

Or were all objects flipped from what you were expecting?

If you can please post a sample .3dm file that has the problem in it when you export, that would help me figure out what is going on.

- Michael
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 From:  sk2k
230.5 In reply to 230.1 
Hi,

if you ever introduce a scene broswer please make it as an option. I do not want things clogging my sparse screenspace. Maybe you can add it as a collapsable sidepanel like the sidemenu in Opera.
The same for control handles. :) Please make them as an option.

I think the camera controls are ok. I'm happy that i do not need to press x+x+x buttons to zoom,rotate and pan.

With all the requests sometimes i'm afraid that MoI will be a JASM (Just Another Standard Modeler) in the future. :/

Btw. i have a request and it's just one. ;) I would like to change the camera FOV. I think it could be useful for modelling indoor scenes.

MfG
sk2k
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 From:  Michael Gibson
230.6 In reply to 230.5 
Hi Tony - don't worry, none of these things will ruin the current simplicity of MoI. That's why I mentioned that major new UI will take a while to develop, I'm not going to just stick something in that doesn't work smoothly.


> if you ever introduce a scene broswer please make it as an option.

It would take the form of either a collapsable panel like you mention, or there will be a switch to flip the side bar between either showing commands (like currently) or switch it to an object list display.


> The same for control handles. :) Please make them as an option.

They will probably be pretty unobtrusive, probably partially transparent unless you move your mouse over them. And there will definitely be an option to turn them off it you don't want them.

It will probably be a while before these things come anyway.


> I think the camera controls are ok. I'm happy that i do not need to press
> x+x+x buttons to zoom,rotate and pan.

I'm not going to take that away, I'm just going to add additional ways to do it.


> Btw. i have a request and it's just one. ;) I would like to change the camera FOV.

How would you think to set it? I mean do you want to set the FOV to some particular numeric value on a dialog, or are you talking about some kind of dynamic adjustment with the mouse?

- Michael
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 From:  sk2k
230.7 In reply to 230.6 

Hi,

> How would you think to set it? I mean do you want to set the FOV to some particular numeric value on a dialog, or are you talking about some kind of dynamic adjustment with the mouse?

a dialog to set the FOV value should do it.

MfG
sk2k

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 From:  Michael Gibson
230.8 In reply to 230.7 
> a dialog to set the FOV value should do it.

The dialog is actually a bit more difficult at the moment because I haven't figured out a good launching point for a view properties dialog. Any ideas?
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 From:  sk2k
230.9 In reply to 230.8 

Hi,

could you add it to the Options as a slider like the UI-Size slider ? Or just make it dynamic changeable with pressing key "whatever" and moving the mouse. Maybe this is a better choice than a dialog.

Ok, this is another question not a request. ;) Would it be possible to show only the icons in the sidemenu without the text under them?

MfG
sk2k

EDITED: 25 Nov 2006 by SK2K

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 From:  Michael Gibson
230.10 In reply to 230.9 
> could you add it to the Options as a slider like the UI-Size slider ? Or just
> make it dynamic changeable with pressing key "whatever" and moving
> the mouse. Maybe this is a better choice than a dialog.

I was thinking ctrl + mouse wheel... I'll add this to the list to try and jam into the beta after the next one.


> Would it be possible to show only the icons in the sidemenu without the text under them?

I should probably be able to make an option for this in the 2nd next beta as well, probably. In the meantime, you know how to edit the UI files, right? So you can just go in there and delete the inner text in SidePane.htm if you want to see it right now.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
230.11 In reply to 230.10 
< I was thinking ctrl + mouse wheel
I believed that the rule of the UI was "no touch" the keyboard? :)
Only one tool, just the mouse or pen graphic, not keyboard!
Till now all works with this rule (except for "Save a file"
and even on this case of "Save a file" we can use the Accesories/ Sytem / Caractere's table of Windows fo write a name's file without keyboard ! :)
(very easy to choose: Selected / Copy / Past / wished letters)
Charm of a strict rule:) But efficient for people with reducted mobility ! (Remember Steph 3D at the beginning only one hand working;)
And how modelize from his bed or chaise lounge with a keyboard? :)
Maybe 2 modes can be existing? With and without keyboard?
Or without is sufficent? I think yes:)

EDITED: 27 Nov 2006 by PILOU

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 From:  George (GKSL4)
230.12 In reply to 230.11 
<Only one tool, just the mouse or pen graphic, not keyboard!
Till now all works with this rule>
I second to this . Try to keep it as much as possible.
Thanks
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 From:  Michael Gibson
230.13 In reply to 230.12 
Wow, you guys are really keeping me honest! :)

But it is a very difficult limitation to make every single function work only with simple clicks. In general, I'm just not really as concerned about stuff that is not used very frequently.

I guess a different alternative is to use right click + drag on the zoom button in the bottom of the perspective viewport to adjust the field of view. Does that seem better?

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
230.14 In reply to 230.13 

< Does that seem better?
Why not :) That is respecting the rule :)

Another thing
About the Zoom something maybe like
left clic + Drag Horizontal left = Zoom out normal slow speed
left clic + Drag Horizontal right = Zoom in normal slow speed
left clic + Drag Vertical down = Zoom out speedy
left clic + Drag Vertical up = Zoom in speedy
because actualy that is some hard it's slow or hyper speed :)

EDITED: 27 Nov 2006 by PILOU

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 From:  EdwinKlijn (EDWINTSI)
230.15 

Sorry, these are the controls:

ALT + mouse = rotate
ALT + CTRL + Mouse = zoom in/out
ALT + SHIFT + Mouse = pan

I have used the scale trick now alot, it's really great.
One suggestion though (sorry :-)
When scaling a very large object to a small object, the large objects can obstruct the view alot when lining up the origin points.
It would be handy to select 2 origin points. One for the correctly scaled model and the other for the one that needs to be scaled WITHOUT them being in the same x,y,z point.
That way i can move the "wrong" object out of my view and scale more eaily.

EDITED: 27 Nov 2006 by EDWINTSI

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
230.16 In reply to 230.15 

< Sorry, these are the controls:

ALT + mouse = rotate
ALT + CTRL + Mouse = zoom in/out
ALT + SHIFT + Mouse = pan>

???
Now we have just
right mouse button + drag = rotate
mouse wheel + clic + drag = pan
Icone down Zoom + drag = Zoom in / out
Seems very more practical and speedy :)

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 From:  Michael Gibson
230.17 In reply to 230.15 
Hi Edwin,

> ALT + mouse = rotate
> ALT + CTRL + Mouse = zoom in/out
> ALT + SHIFT + Mouse = pan

So all you need is Zoom, right? Rotate and Pan should already be working with these in MoI.

Do you use a mouse or a tablet? If you use a mouse, I'm curious why you would not want to zoom with the scroll wheel instead of Alt+Ctrl+Mouse - does the scroll wheel not control zooming in Lightwave and Modo?


> When scaling a very large object to a small object, the large objects
> can obstruct the view alot when lining up the origin points.
> It would be handy to select 2 origin points. One for the correctly scaled
> model and the other for the one that needs to be scaled WITHOUT them
> being in the same x,y,z point.
> That way i can move the "wrong" object out of my view and scale more eaily.

I don't think I can easily add this directly into scale, because it would force an extra pick every time which would often times not be needed.

Eventually I think there will be a different re-orient tool that will handle a combination of movement, rotation and scaling that would behave like you are asking for. That will be a little bit before that is ready though.

In the meantime, there is an easy workaround - you can place point objects (Draw curve / Point) at any key points on the large object, then you can select the large object and hide it, leaving just your smaller object and those points to snap on to. You could also draw an extra line there as well, but points may be a little easier to select afterwards to delete them.

Point objects are good to use as markers like this because they are easy to see and select since they draw in front of everything else.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
230.18 In reply to 230.14 
Hi Pilou,

> < Does that seem better?> Why not :) That is respecting the rule :)

I think I will give it a try like that. Eventually the rule will probably be broken, there probably will come a point when some specialized functions end up using only the keyboard. But even when that day comes, it doesn't mean that all the existing stuff that doesn't require the keyboard will suddenly become broken! :)


> Another thing
> About the Zoom something maybe like
> left clic + Drag Horizontal left = Zoom out normal slow speed
> left clic + Drag Horizontal right = Zoom in normal slow speed
> left clic + Drag Vertical down = Zoom out speedy
> left clic + Drag Vertical up = Zoom in speedy
> because actualy that is some hard it's slow or hyper speed :)

Right now it is controlled by the distance that you move away from your click point.

If you move only a small distance, you should get slow movement, and if you move a larger distance it will move faster and faster.

The movement is continuous, I mean if you move your mouse up a few pixels and hold it there, the zoom will continue, you don't have to be actively moving the mouse to make it continue to zoom.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
230.19 In reply to 230.16 
Hi Pilou,

> right mouse button + drag = rotate
> mouse wheel + clic + drag = pan
> Icone down Zoom + drag = Zoom in / out

You can also spin the scroll wheel to zoom in and out as well. If you're using a mouse, I think that is actually easier than using the zoom button. The zoom button is particularly useful when you're using a tablet which does not have a scroll wheel on it, or you can also use the zoom button to zoom in by a smaller increment than the scroll wheel by moving your mouse only a tiny bit - sometimes that can be useful.

Then in addition to this, you can also use Alt + left drag for rotate, Alt + shift + left drag for pan, and also shift + right drag for pan as well. These are all for compatability with other programs.


> Seems very more practical and speedy :)

In this case these additional options are more about being compatible with other programs (and people's habits).

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
230.20 In reply to 230.18 
When the rule will broken, MoI will be at the Version 7 :)

Cool for the Zoom, I was too speedy so don't very good saw that ! Thx!
(so you have more clic free + drag horizontal & Vertical for another things :)
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