Cplane problem/request All  1-20

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 From:  kevjon
2270.1 
One of the problems I have with cplane is that the blueprints or reference images are affected by the orientation of cplane.

It would be great if you could set the cplane to the desired orientation and still work in the top, right or front viewports so you can accurately draw over your blueprints onto the cplane. Hope this request makes sense. At the moment the top, side and front viewports orientate themselves to the cplane which affects the blueprints you are accurately trying to draw over.

I don't know if this is a problem other users are experiencing but would be a great if it could be included into the final v2.
~Kevin~
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 From:  manz
2270.2 In reply to 2270.1 
Does un-checking the "apply to all views" not do what you want?


EDITED: 3 Aug 2009 by MANZ

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 From:  Michael Gibson
2270.3 In reply to 2270.1 
Hi Kevin - I'm not quite sure if I understand the problem completely, I may need some more details.

> It would be great if you could set the cplane to the desired
> orientation and still work in the top, right or front viewports
> so you can accurately draw over your blueprints onto the cplane.

Actually it should be working like that already.

After you place the cplane to your desired location, your Top, Front, and Right viewports will change to be relative views of that new orientation (unless you unchecked the "Apply to all views" option in which case they stay looking in the world directions).

Once you have set the cplane, you can then place any background blueprints that you want which will by default take the orientation of the new cplane in each view when they are initially drawn. You then can proceed to work in that view normally just like you want, unless I am missing something that is not working for you?

Note though that any images that you placed prior to setting the cplane will not be relocated when you place the cplane - that is intentional, same thing as how any objects you previously drew (like for instance a rectangle) do not change to align with the new cplane automatically. But if you draw a new rectangle after placing the cplane, it will take the cplane's orientation. Basically there is no difference between drawing a rectangle and drawing an image, they behave the same if that helps explain it?

An image is not necessarily fixed to only be locked to a particular view, for example you can rotate an image to any angle it does not have to only be tied to the x and y axis directions of a view like maybe you were expecting?

But if you want one aligned to the view, just place it after your cplane is placed and that should do what you want, right?

Please let me know if that is not right.

- Michael
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 From:  kevjon
2270.4 In reply to 2270.2 
Thank Manz and Michael but not quite what I was looking for as you can't actually draw objects on the cplane unless the view is cplane. If the view is cplane then my blueprint is orientated at a odd angle due to the odd angle of my cplane. I want to be able to draw in the default top, side or front view onto the cplane.

I'll explain with this example.
I have an aircraft with blueprints setup in top, front and side views which is all quite normal.
The wing has a angle of incidence of 6 degrees and I want to draw some objects on top of the wing to match my blueprints so I angle my cplane to wing (6 deg). My blueprints are then at a odd angle and I can't draw the objects accurately on top of the wing due to the bad orientation of my blueprints. If I could remain in the default top view (not cplane top view) and still draw objects on the cplane would be perfect.
Hopefully this explaination is clearer ?

PS I didn't know you can set up additional blueprints using the cplane so this is a workaround solution but when modelling all sorts of stuff at odd angles to each other it will be tedious process setting up blueprints all the time not to mention managing all the blueprints.

EDITED: 26 Dec 2008 by KEVJON

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 From:  Michael Gibson
2270.5 In reply to 2270.4 
Hi Kevin - I think I understand what you mean.

But in MoI the Top, Front, and Right views are always set up to be a "plan" view of the grid that they are working on.

That grid can either be the world grid or the cplane grid (if you check "apply to all views" when setting the cplane) but there isn't any way to get a Top view with a non-plan (like slanted) view of the grid like it would be if the Top view remained world aligned but used the slanted Cplane for its grid.

Having the Top/Front/Right views always be a plan view kind of simplifes the UI and avoids problem areas like getting a degenerate edge-on view of a grid which could otherwise happen pretty easily if they did not stay plan.

It might be possible for me to expose a script method that would allow the Top view plane to be slanted, I'll give it a try and see.


Currently though there is another way you can get what you want here which is to use the 3D view instead.

If you go to Options / View, and set 3D view projection: Parallel , and then go to Options / View / 3D view angles and set all the view angles to 0, that will set up the 3D view to be the same as the Top view, except it does not re-orient when you change the CPlane, so that would allow you to draw on the slanted cplane from the same view as the Top view. I believe this will get the job done right now and it should be possible to set up a keyboard shortcut that will set the projection and angles with one keystroke, let me know if you want me to make up a script macro for that.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2270.6 In reply to 2270.4 
Hi Kevin, actually here is the script:

script:var vp = moi.ui.mainWindow.viewpanel.getViewport('3D'); if ( vp.projection == 'Parallel' ) { vp.projection = 'Perspective'; vp.setAngles( 65, 25, 0 ); } else { vp.projection = 'Parallel'; vp.setAngles( 0, 0, 0 ); }


Set that up on a shortcut key by going to Options / Shortcut keys, and add in a new entry. Put in whatever you want for the key, and paste in the above for the Command part.

Then when you hit that key, the 3D view will change to become the same view as the world "Top" view, regardless of what kind of CPlane you have. So if you have an angled CPlane you can then draw on the angled plane there while still having the world top view of the scene like I think you want.

Then when you are done, hit the same key again and the 3D view will flip back to the regular perspective view.

I think that will get the job done for you right now.

But I will take a look at seeing if I can add a script method to let the Top view's grid get angled to become non-plan, that would probably be easier.

- Michael
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 From:  kevjon
2270.7 In reply to 2270.6 
Michael thankyou very much for your help. Script looks useful except that sometimes I also need to draw objects on the cplane in the front or side view also (not always top)


Maybe this request could be a checkbox option in cplane tool in the final V2 or next beta as I find I need to do this all the time when modelling stuff that is at odd angles over blueprints. While the cplane is a fantastic addition to the toolset, the ability to draw on it without affecting the orientation of your blueprints would make the tool perfect.
~Kevin~
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2270.8 In reply to 2270.7 
Hi Kevin,

> except that sometimes I also need to draw objects on the cplane
> in the front or side view also (not always top)

For the moment for getting the job done in the current release you can use some different scripts for doing the Front or Right-side views.

For Front use this one:

script:var vp = moi.ui.mainWindow.viewpanel.getViewport('3D'); if ( vp.projection == 'Parallel' ) { vp.projection = 'Perspective'; vp.setAngles( 65, 25, 0 ); } else { vp.projection = 'Parallel'; vp.setAngles( 90, 0, 0 ); }

For the Right-side view, use this one:

script:var vp = moi.ui.mainWindow.viewpanel.getViewport('3D'); if ( vp.projection == 'Parallel' ) { vp.projection = 'Perspective'; vp.setAngles( 65, 25, 0 ); } else { vp.projection = 'Parallel'; vp.setAngles( 90, 90, 0 ); }


I know that is not ideal since you will have 3 keys and you will need to remember which one to use for a particular view, but at least it will let you get the result currently.


> Maybe this request could be a checkbox option in cplane tool
> in the final V2 or next beta as I find I need to do this all the
> time when modelling stuff that is at odd angles over blueprints.

Yeah it seems like something for that is necessary.

So I guess the way that you're talking about there would be a second checkbox called something like "Orient ortho views" that would be under "Apply to all views". It would be checked by default but you could uncheck it for the task that you are talking about here.

I guess the big question that I have is about degenerate "edge-on" views.

Say you unchecked that option and then set a cplane to a 6 degree angle in the Top view like you were talking about.

What would you expect to happen now in the Front and Right-side views? If I literally use that same exact plane you would be looking at it exactly from the edge which is not a good situation, it basically means you can't pick points with the mouse there.

Do you think I should set those ones up to have their standard World-oriented planes if they would otherwise be viewing the cplane edge-on? Or maybe should all views keep their regular world grids unless they are looking right downwards on the new grid (angled or not)?

I'm not quite sure what to do with the other views in this scenario.

- Michael
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 From:  kevjon
2270.9 In reply to 2270.8 
Hi Michael

Thanks for the extra scripts they will be quite useful to me. I'll probably call them CT CR & CF. Cplane top, cplane right, cplane front etc.

>Say you unchecked that option and then set a cplane to a 6 degree angle
>in the Top view like you were talking about.
>What would you expect to happen now in the Front and Right-side views?

I think having an option to orientate your views to cplane (current V2 beta) or world coordinates is the go. What I mean by that is give the user the option to leave all the views in world coordinate view but still be able to draw on the cplane. The user would then pick the viewport which is closest to the orientation of the cplane and draw in that viewport. From a modellors point of view who uses blueprints as reference this would be an invaluable option. The user could then toggle the cplane between the two modes (cplane view and world coordinate view) to suit but would always be drawing their objects on the cplane.
~Kevin~
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2270.10 In reply to 2270.9 
Hi Kevin - the tricky part is that you can't always draw on a single plane from every angled view.... Specifically if you've got a view that is looking exactly at the edge of a plane.

Here's an example to clarify:



In that example I've set up a plane which can be drawn on in the Top view, however if the Front and Right views used the grid in exactly the same 3D orientation as that plane, you can see that they are looking directly at the edge of it and cannot draw on it.

If I were to place the exact same cplane as the grid on every single view and not modify the view, it would end up with the grids on the Front and Right views all collapsed down to a line same as you see for this regular plane object....

That's kind of the situation that I'd like to avoid.

So I've got to try and figure out what should happen to the Front and Right views when this kind of mode is activated.

Are you saying that it doesn't bother you to have those other views become edge-on degenerate views when you would set this "don't change ortho views" type mode?


The part that works well right now is that not only do the views change to be relative, but also each ortho view gets a different oriented drawing plane so for example the Front view gets a grid that uses the X and Z axes of the primary construction plane, not the X and Y axes that the Top view uses. If there was no connection between the view orientations and the cplane as you want to have an option for, I'm not sure that doing that kind of axis flipping for each view's local grid would make sense to do...


- Michael
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 From:  kevjon
2270.11 In reply to 2270.10 
>Are you saying that it doesn't bother you to have those other views
>become edge-on degenerate views when you would set this "don't change ortho views" type mode?

Yes.

The edge on views become useful reference when you extrude the object you have drawn on the cplane.
~Kevin~
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2270.12 In reply to 2270.11 
Hi Kevin,

> The edge on views become useful reference when you extrude
> the object you have drawn on the cplane.

Yeah they can be useful for viewing results, but you won't be able to draw things with the mouse in them when they are looking edge-on at their grid.

What if I switched those views that would get an edge-on grid to have their regular default planes instead of the edge-on one? Would that cause any problems for the kind of use that you are talking about?

- Michael
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 From:  kevjon
2270.13 In reply to 2270.12 
>What if I switched those views that would get an edge-on grid to have their
>regular default planes instead of the edge-on one?
>Would that cause any problems for the kind of use that you are talking about?

Nah, that would be alright.

The main requirement I'm talking about is the ability to draw on the cplane without affecting the orientation of the blueprints underneath.
~Kevin~
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2270.14 In reply to 2270.13 
Hi Kevin, I'll see if I can set that up...

Does another checkbox that says: "Orient ortho views" make sense?

It would show up if "Apply to all views" was checked. Default will be for it to be checked which would give the same as current behavior (where the ortho views move to be looking relative to the new cplane) - if you uncheck it then the ortho views would stay oriented in world to get the type of thing that you want here.

- Michael
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 From:  manz
2270.15 In reply to 2270.13 
Hi Michael,


Could you add a "Project to Cplane" option?. The views could be to user Cplane, but curves drawn in the ortho views projected to the relative world planes.



- Steve
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 From:  kevjon
2270.16 In reply to 2270.14 
Michael

>Does another checkbox that says: "Orient ortho views" make sense?

Yep, I think users will understand this.

Manz
>The views could be to user Cplane, but curves drawn in the ortho views projected to the relative world planes.
Thats how it currently works ?
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2270.17 In reply to 2270.15 
Hi Steve - sorry I'm not following that, could you describe it a bit more?

Maybe what you are talking about would be if the 2 checkboxes were always visible (instead of the second one disappearing when you unchecked the first one), and you disabled "Apply to all views" (so the grids in ortho views stayed as their default world planes), but enabled "Orient ortho views" so that the view directions do shift to be relative to the custom cplane?

If you could describe a bit about the scenario where that would help out, that might help me understand it better.

- Michael
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 From:  manz
2270.18 In reply to 2270.17 
Hi Michael,

I was thinking of the "ProjectOsnap" in Rhino, but a little more simplified. As example. A drawing can be set up on a custom Cplane with "apply to all views", with an option to "project", then, rather than the curves being drawn on the user Cplane, they are projected to the world plane.


- Steve
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2270.19 In reply to 2270.18 
Hi Steve,

> then, rather than the curves being drawn on the user
> Cplane, they are projected to the world plane.

I'm not sure which world plane they would project on to?

A user cplane is not restricted to be similar to the original world plane - they can easily be flipped around in some totally different direction. For example it would be possible for a relocated "Top" view to be looking down right at the edge of the normal "World Top" plane.

So it's not really clear to me how that would work...


The other part is that you seem to be talking about curves being projected - would that mean that a circle that was being drawn would instead project to an ellipse as the end result? If so then that is not something that can easily be set up by just changing how points are picked, the circle command for example only currently knows how to construct a circle, not an ellipse. So that would probably require changes to every command, making it a rather difficult amount of work I'm afraid.

- Michael
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 From:  kevjon
2270.20 In reply to 2270.18 
Steve

Couldn't you place a rectangular surface or similar object on the world plane as a temporary object. Draw you objects/curves on the cplane and then use the project curve tool ?
~Kevin~
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