Hi Michael,

I'm not a big fan from this kind of multi purpose button depending of which mouse bouton you are clicking.
I never read MoI documentation because icons where speaking by themself, and there are no hidded subtilities.
In fact I never really understand this sub hide option until you describe it now :o)

The isolate function (for me) is quite different from an hide/show mechanism. I mean when I decide to isolate something, I want to focus in a short amount of
time on a part of my model, and I expect, when I 'un'isolate it, to come back from my previous view, when hidden stuff are still hidden.

For example, A, B, C are 3 objects, C is currently hidden ... I isolate A, work on A, unisolate A, I have A and B back on the screen (while C is still hidden as before the isolate operation).

Finally I don't know how the layers will work, but I hope to be able to hide/show stuff through the layers system, and not with the actual method.

And last but not least, I really 'need' to be able to use a shortcut for the isolate function.

@PaQ
> I never read MoI documentation
Ah! C'est bien la peine qu'on se donne du mal! :) :) :)

Hi Pilou, a compact description would be like this:

Object selected:
Left click = Hide selected objects
Right click = Hide unselected objects (isolate selection)

No objects selected:
Left click = Show all hidden objects
Right click = Pick which hidden objects to show.

- Michael

Hi PaQ, yes definitely the scene browser tree thing will have a way to hide or show a particular group of objects.

Also the current shortcut that you use for isolate will continue to work, I will just likely be adding a new function available to script that will handle the situation for points on a little better. You can then change your shortcut to call this new one if you want.


re: no multi-purpose buttons...

Unfortunately there are a lot of conflicting forces here.

It is good to avoid hidden functions when possible.

It is also generally good to have a streamlined UI that does not overwhelm users with a tremendous number of buttons.

I have to try to reconcile these different goals, usually that will mean I need to put more "advanced functions" to be an auxiliary type function on some standard UI when it is possible to combine things.

The main other choice that I have to maintain the simple and streamlined UI is to not add in new functions at all...

- Michael

< The main other choice that I have to maintain the simple and streamlined UI is to not add in new functions at all...
Maybe an extremist target :)

Your "short list" seems reasonnable !)

At first I was going to say I didn't like the proposed change but I see it's just moving things over to the right-click of the button so that's fine with me...

I can appreciate some folks not wanting seperate functions for depending on if the button is right or left clicked but I personally don't see that as a problem since I can appreciate Michael's need to conserve UI space.

The one thing I like that some of my apps have (3D-Coat, Silo and others) is a tool tip over each button when the cursor over it.

It really helps when you're new to the app. Later it can be switched off if desired to remove the reminders.

If MOI displayed a tip on the left/right functionality of the buttons (status bar or tooltip) that would help those who (like myself), also haven't fully read though the manual.

-Will

michael,
you wrote that some people find the 'show hidden object' mode confusing, maybe when onen uses Hide to show hidden objects, there cold be a popup text that appears ('Hidden Objects').
Same with the isolate command toggle, there could be an 'Isolate mode' text that appears.

I seem to recall that 3dsmax does this - have not used it for years.

The list from Pilous is what I would like to avoid.....
I think it is better when the buttons are straight forward, as much as possible.
Especially for those of us who model using a graphic tablet.

Hi Okapi,

> The list from Pilous is what I would like to avoid.....

I'd definitely like to avoid key combinations on buttons to do things.

But left click for the primary functions and right click for some advanced functions is a pretty good way to get multiple use out of the same UI.

It is a pretty big priority to make a single piece of UI "pull more weight" and do more functions when it is possible.

Most things in MoI are actually set up that way already since they do different things depending on the current selection. For example if you have 2 lines selected and you do a Fillet command, it will produce a curve/curve fillet since it looks at the current selection. That's instead of having a separate "Curve fillet" button next to an "Edge fillet" button and so forth.

Hide/show on the same button is another example where it looks at the selection to do different things - if there is a selection it will do one operation (hide the selection) and if there is not a selection it does a different one (lets you pick objects to show currently).

So basically that fits in pretty well with how a whole bunch of other stuff is already working - to be context sensitive to the selection I mean.

- Michael

Hi okapi,

> maybe when onen uses Hide to show hidden objects,
> there cold be a popup text that appears ('Hidden Objects').

It's an interesting idea - I'm not sure exactly where the text would appear though, do you have any ideas?

One problem might be that on a complex project you may typically have some stuff hidden all the time anyway, pretty much making it a permanent button for that case.

- Michael

Well, so far I use the Hide command to toggle the hidden then objects, select those I want, and make them visible.
During this procedure, (when only the hidden objects are shown), there could be a popup text shown (HIDDEN OBJECTS) or similar.
When something is selected and 'un-hidden', then text would dissapear.

alternatively, you could show hidden objects, when pressing H, with a slight hue.

If text, i would be nice as an HUD object, just a floating text in the active viewport.
This could also work well wih an isolate command.

Hi okapi, there actually is already a text being displayed for this - it's the command prompt in the upper-right area of the screen:




When the hidden objects are being displayed, that prompt is shown, and when you are done selecting them, it does go away like you are talking about...

- Michael

Michael,
you are right, forgot about that. I have not been using Moi much lately...

I though an HUD king of text would be easier to see, since your eyes stay focused on the viewport
(especially if you use shortcuts for the Hide or isolate commands)

Hi okapi,

> I though an HUD king of text would be easier to see, since
> your eyes stay focused on the viewport

That would be definitely easier to see, but that creates a new problem where it partially interferes with the viewing of the objects inside the viewport.

I try to reserve HUD type text only for things that involve your mouse or a particular 3D point location inside the viewport, like you'll see that kind of text when you do some snaps for example.

Otherwise for general text messages I've tried to place those in that dedicated area off to the side so that the 3D working area can remain uncluttered and unobstructed.

- Michael

>> The main other choice that I have to maintain the simple and streamlined UI is to not add in new functions at all...

Heurm ... I vote for new functions :o)

If one day you decide to expand the functions so much that [Alt] click combo is required, I really like the way modo ui handle this, by swichting ui icons on the fly when
the alt key is pressed.

Hi Michael,

Personally I'm hoping for hide and show to get a lot better with the group/layer/object organisation in V2.

I am hoping to be able to hide and show groups of objects. So I would be able to have construction curves in a separate groups that can be shown or hidden as required. Is this the case?

If so then the current hide/show can remain quite simple. Modo has the same function but is very simple. Hide or show all. Only really used on the fly to get things temporarily out the way. The object organizing system (in modo's case layers and groups) takes care of any other hide show situations.


Your left-click/right click for different functionality (hide/isolate) sounds confusing to me. If they are different commands and you still allow changing the UI as you did for V1, then I would probably try to put them on different icons.

Hi Tony, well all the functions there are related to hiding some objects, either the selected ones or the unselected ones.

I think it probably won't be a big deal, I'll give it a try and see how it works out.

The big benefit will be that "Show all" will be a more accessible option with this new arrangement. That will likely reduce confusion with the current show mechanism.


The UI is generally going to be the same system v2 as it was for v1 so you'll be able to edit the UI to customize it whichever way you want.


I do plan on having the ability to hide/show groups of objects with the scene browser tree interface as well, it will be a system in addition to this one. That will be great for more complex scenes, but it is important to have a set of basic hide/show abilities without having to go in and set up groups. Having to stop and set up groups can be a kind of annoying and distracting step when you just want to quickly model some basic stuff but still need to hide and show a few objects at a time.

- Michael

The UI is generally going to be the same system v2 as it was for v1 so you'll be able to edit the UI to customize it whichever way you want.


I do plan on having the ability to hide/show groups of objects with the scene browser tree interface as well, it will be a system in addition to this one. That will be great for more complex scenes, but it is important to have a set of basic hide/show abilities without having to go in and set up groups. Having to stop and set up groups can be a kind of annoying and distracting step when you just want to quickly model some basic stuff but still need to hide and show a few objects at a time.


This sounds great - thanks Michael.

I've just found this script. Very useful indeed and exactly what I was looking for.

The problem with the script is that when you unisolate your object it unhides everything rather than just the stuff you had on screen at the time you originally ran isolate.

Hi Kevin, yeah to restore the previous state like that would require the script to store the state of all the objects somewhere and retrieve it later.

Certainly not impossible, but doing that kind of "persisting data" thing in a script tends to be more difficult.

It should be possible to tune up here in other ways but it isn't something that can be solved just by a simple tweak to the existing script right at the moment.

- Michael