Fillet

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 From:  lee
2079.1 
Michael, why can't I fillet this edge? Thanks


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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
2079.2 In reply to 2079.1 
Seems in big zoom your curves are not clean ;)

Else maybe separate the 2 forms reduce one then bend it?

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 From:  Michael Gibson
2079.3 In reply to 2079.1 
Hi Lee - there are a couple of different things there that give the filleter problems.

One is that there is a kind of crease where your 2 halves meet - that causes the edge filleter to have to try and fill in a corner in that area which is harder to do than if they were smooth:



Also this back end comes to a quite sharp point, that is not a very simple edge structure there, that will tend to make it hard for it to calculate as well:



Basically this edge structure is just not really simple and distinct enough for the edge-based filleter to handle. Combining that with a fair amount of bending and tight curvature to some portions of the surfaces and that is quite a difficult situation.


It is possible to fillet it though by using a surface/surface fillet calculation instead of an edge-based one.

To do that, I untrimmed your surfaces to get rid of the sort of sharp pointy end at the back:



Then select those 2 individual surfaces and run fillet. This will do a surface/surface style fillet instead, which can create fillets in places where the edge-based one will not work:



I took that resulting fillet and copy/pasted it back into the main model, trimmed the surfaces, and that resulted in the attached version 2_filleted.3dm .

It is a lot more difficult to use the surface/surface filleter because you have to do more "low level" type operations like surface trimming, but it can do the job in situations like this where you do not have a very simple edge structure.

Basically if you wanted the edge filleter to work you would need to simplify the shapes there, have the halves meeting more smoothly with each other, not have a sharp edge at the back, just have a generally more simple structure there in several aspects.

Unfortunately the fillet calculations are pretty finicky, the more wiggly bits, tight bends, sharp corners, not quite smooth things you have it can easily cause problems for it.

- Michael

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 From:  Michael Gibson
2079.4 In reply to 2079.1 
Hi Lee, one other note on this fillet - I have made some tune-ups to the next v2 beta for filleting so that when the filleter runs across a problem with a corner or with handling the end of a fillet it does not fail the entire fillet operation like it will in the current release.

In this case it means that the edge based fillet will produce a result in the next v2 release, I've attached the .3dm file for it.

You can see that the main problem seems to be with trimming the fillet in that back area:



That area has some excess fillet bits that would need to be trimmed out or cleaned up.

But I think this should help quite a bit to get some useful results out of the edge-based filleting in spots where it would just not cooperate at all before.

- Michael

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 From:  max3d (DAVEDAVIDSON)
2079.5 In reply to 2079.4 
cool sounds like the next version will be loads better. thanks for putting in all the work mate
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 From:  DannyT (DANTAS)
2079.6 In reply to 2079.4 
I think that's a better alternative instead of the fillet failing completely Michael, good stuff there, I guess it's for sheet to sheet fillet situation, is that right ?

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~Danny~
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2079.7 In reply to 2079.6 
Hi Danny,

> I guess it's for sheet to sheet fillet situation, is that right ?

I'm not sure which kind of fillet is the sheet to sheet kind, but previously if there was any problem with handling the ends of the fillet surface the whole fillet would fail.

I think one of the most common ones was trying to intersect the fillet with a kind of "side wall" surface but not getting a clean intersection, possibly due to shallow intersecting angles or something like that.

- Michael
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 From:  DannyT (DANTAS)
2079.8 In reply to 2079.7 
What I mean by sheet to sheet Michael, is when the model is separated or will this fix work on solids also ?

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 From:  Michael Gibson
2079.9 In reply to 2079.8 
Hi Danny - there are some tune-ups for tolerating errors in both surface/surface filleting as well as edge-based filleting.

But there is a lot more opportunity for errors in the edge-based (solid) one since it does a lot more kinds of corner building and trimming type things, so it will have a bigger impact on that.

- Michael
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 From:  BurrMan
2079.10 In reply to 2079.8 
I know you always shy away from the "two options for one" question, but having the fillet'r "fail" if the result is not "correct" may be good for someone that doesnt know how to do this stuff. ie; If the fillet'r goes ahead and makes this surface that needs to be low level trimmed, the newb will make a model that doesnt work and wont know why. Danny for instance, may want this and know when/how to fix things up. Burr for instance, will need multiple posts from Michael, explaining tangency and then starting from scratch instead of figuriung out something is wrong from the begining. Being able to enable or disable the fillet'rs "ability" could suit the "easy for beginer" mission of MoI. (advocate is to many options becomes rhino).
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2079.11 In reply to 2079.10 
Hi Burr, well the alternative to not doing this for fillet is for nothing to happen at all... Which is not exactly a very great alternative for a beginner as well.

As time goes on hopefully I can make more and more adjustments to try and solve some of the most frequently encountered problems more automatically. For example automatically correcting tangents that are within say 5 degrees of being smooth to be tweaked to be fully smooth would clear up one category of problems.

It is a general goal for MoI to make it more friendly and productive for novices by trying to handle some of these details for you with less expert knowledge required... The overall UI has helped go in that direction a lot already, but there will still be a lot more steps taken towards that as time goes on.

- Michael
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 From:  lee
2079.12 In reply to 2079.11 
That's a great improvement to the filleter for (user) error handling. It exposes the problem area for the filleter for on thing, that's how you learn as a 'newb'.

Thanks Michael
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 From:  BurrMan
2079.13 In reply to 2079.11 
I was kindof suggesting the ability to do "BOTH". As the fillet'r is now, "super finiky", if you dont do a proper curve it doesnt fillet. As a newcomer, this had me review what I have done, search the forum, read up on fillet. Danny on the other hand, has a good grasp of fillet, knows how to push it and what that entails, and how to fix the less than optimal results, he needs these to go through as you have done. As pertaining to the newb, he will now end up with this:



And wont know why or how to fix it.

Almost like a tolerance setting for the fillet. 100%=only fillet perfect scenario. 10%=throw surfaces all over the place and let the user cut, trim, move and join away! :)

Talk to you later.

EDITED: 19 Jun 2012 by BURRMAN

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