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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
207.1 

I have used MoI during these last days (near the ocean :) for some objects to modelize
It's appear that some functions are some missing :)
The view Bottom, Left, Back
(you can make the appropriate rotate objects but it's some painful :)
A work's color by object (when an object is some complex it's some helpful)
(maybe a water color palett ?
(of course layers...patience :)

A "close" surface curve (maybe it's a dream )

An "Hiden function" with Undo (pleaaaase...:) (just one if it's to complicated)
When you have selected 12 objects one by one for hide (or more) and make an error, you must all eselect again ;)

Someone ask me: a "Start curve"+ an "End Curve" along a path ! (very useful !)

Aother thing
About "Sweep" for example : seems better to have the same numbers of control points for the rails !
Is that normal?

Some precisions : What is the status of the "primitive solid"? (Cube, sphere, cylinder...
Are they a "Volume" or a "surfacic" object?
And the Status of Moi ? Surfacic, Volumic, Solid (I suppose not:)
Is it possible to give some stats about a "close" object? (volume, surface...)
An the number of memory avaible for work? (numbers of objects...)

Using MoI with an "old" prog (CadKey :) it's appear that the "IGES" format works fine when
you make that MoI ---> CadKey : "Export" (Selected objects) and not MoI--->CadKey"Save as" (no specific objects selected) IGES file Format

Another thing (maybe a little bug:)
When you save a file format Iges and if the name of this file yet exist in "3dm", you can't save it!
(You must take a new name :)

I have import some Iges files format from CadKey (reduced to a unic layer) to MoI : no problem :)
Iges importation works fine :)

Ps Question : What is the normal process for "filet" this hemi sphere (the circular base) on a plane like in this file?
Hemi sphere + plan don't work
Union sphere + plan work
Hemi sphere (base fase killed) + plan don't work
Union sphere (base fase killed) + plan work !
Pss is it possible to have something for the max filet possible on a curve selected?

Have you somewhere a list of of english terms existing in the interface or menus (a sort of ressource) for an easy french translation?

EDITED: 5 Nov 2006 by PILOU

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 From:  Michael Gibson
207.2 In reply to 207.1 
Hi Pilou, I hope you had some time to enjoy the ocean away from your computer! :)

> The view Bottom, Left, Back
> (you can make the appropriate rotate objects but it's some painful :)

I expect to have this eventually, but I'm not sure about V1 or not. Maybe. In another thread Paul had a good idea that maybe clicking on the view tab a second time could flip the view around, like maybe clicking "top" a second time would flip it to bottom. That sounds like it would work well.


> A work's color by object (when an object is some complex it's some helpful)
> (maybe a water color palett ?
> (of course layers...patience :)

:) Yes, I know this area needs work. But this one will be a while, dealing with object properties is just going to be a major area of UI, and major areas of UI are more difficult to do.


> A "close" surface curve (maybe it's a dream )

How do you mean? Can you show an example?


> An "Hiden function" with Undo (pleaaaase...:)
> When you have selected 12 patrt of objects' faces one by one for hide
> (or more) and make an error, you must reselect again ;)

This one I expect to do relatively soon, I think it will be in a batch of stuff along with image backgrounds and arrays that I will work on after the mesh stuff is completed. But I still have maybe two weeks of work left on the mesh stuff though, and everything else has been postponed until the mesh stuff is complete.


> Someone ask me: a "Start curve"+ an "End Curve" along a path ! (very useful !)

Can you describe this a little more, please?


> About "Sweep" for example : seems better to have the same numbers
> of control points for the rails !
> Is that normal?

It's not too unusual, because when aligning different curves together, often times the structures of the curves have to be combined, and when they have the same number of control points, they already have a matching structure, making it easier to combine them together. It's kind of like "morphing" if you have done that in animation packages.

But if you have a problem with a sweep where it is not working as you expect, please post a sample so I can keep track of it and work on it later. I expect to improve sweep before V1.


> Some precisions : What is the status of the "primitive solid"? (Cube, sphere, cylinder...
> Are they a "Volume" or a "surfacic" object?

They are a volume that is defined by the Boundary-Representation (B-Rep) method, where there is a connected, closed skin of surfaces that partition space into an inside region and an outside region. Having a concept of "inside" versus "outside" is what makes something a volume.


> And the Status of Moi ? Surfacic, Volumic, Solid (I suppose not:)

MoI is what is sometimes called a "hybrid" modeler, where you can have both surfaces and volumes/solids (do you consider a volume and a solid to be different things? I would categorize them as the same). All objects are made up of surfaces, and if the surfaces are joined together at their edges and form a fully closed skin, then that defines a solid object that has a volume.

MoI allows you to separate a volume into its "skin" and work on the skin as individual surfaces. Then later on you can join the skin back together to recreate the volume. So in this way you can work both with surfaces and with solids/volumes.


> Is it possible to give some stats about a "close" object? (volume, surface...)

It will be possible eventually, but I'm not planning on having this set up for the V1 release. Rhino could provide this information for you - get the Rhino evaluation and you should be able to open up your .3dm file in Rhino and use its tools to calculate volume, surface area, etc..


> An the number of memory avaible for work?

Have you been running low on memory? It seems like these days memory is so less expensive than it once was that you should really just have quite a lot of it and not really be in very much danger of running out like you used to be in years past. But if you really want to monitor your available memory, I'm sure you should be able to find some kind of utility program that would do it...


> Using MoI with an "old" prog (CadKey :) it's appear that the "IGES" format works
> fine when you make that MoI ---> CadKey : "Export" (Selected objects) and not
> MoI--->CadKey"Save as" (no specific objects selected) IGES file Format

Hmmm, that is strange. The only real difference I can see between Save As and Export, is that Save As will save out hidden objects to the IGES file as well. These objects are set with an IGES "blanked" attribute. I guess that it is possible that CadKey's importer does not deal with these "blanked" objects properly.


> Another thing (maybe a little bug:)
> When you save a file format Iges and if the name of this file
> yet exist in "3dm", you can't save it!
> (You must take a new name :)

I can't seem to repeat this problem over here. Here is what I'm doing - create a file c:\test.3dm. Open up this file, and then do a File/Save As, and type in c:\test.igs and push enter. This seems to generate the IGES file ok over here. Are you doing some different steps to see the bug?


> Ps Question : What is the normal process for "filet" this hemi sphere
> (the circular base) on a plane like in this file?

There are 2 different possibilities. One way is to have the plane and the hemisphere joined together at their common edge (the plane must have a hole cut in it for this). When it is configured like this, you can select the common edge and then fillet it (or in this case just select the whole object which will fillet all sharp common edges).

The other way is that the hemisphere and the plane must be individual separate objects, not joined together. If you have two individual surfaces, you can select each surface and then fillet those surfaces together. Note - this is with the surfaces selected, not edges. This type of surface/surface fillet is a slightly different operation than the edge fillet. It is similar, but the pieces will be left separate instead of joined together like with an edge fillet.

In this case you are probably running into the problem of having 2 separate (UN-joined) surfaces, and then selecting the edges. For an edge selection to work for fillet, the surfaces must be joined at the common edge, I think that is the difference that you are seeing. Please let me know if this needs additional explanation.


> Pss is it possible to have something for the max filet possible on a curve selected?

This may be difficult to do, it is a fairly complex calculation.


Thanks for all the feedback, Pilou!

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
207.3 In reply to 207.2 
About the Curve start /curve End on a rail or path is this image more clear ?
Of course curve Start, Curve End , and rail -path) can be any curve !
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
207.4 In reply to 207.2 

Thx for the hemi sphere methods

About problem of name of file and IGES format here just inside MoI !
Try that
Make a "cube solid" save as name "Cube" in 3dm format
Now always in MoI "save as" IGES format, same name "Cube", MoI (windows(?) said "cube.3dm" "soon exist !!!!
"would you erase it Yes/ No", if Yes the cube is saved in 3Dm format not in IGES format???
Idem if you make an "Export" IGES
Now, no problem is you take for example "Cube1", now the IGES file is cool exported or saved :)
I believe that is more a problem of windows file names management than a MoI bug :)

And it's for me reproductible at any time!

Ps For the Tabkey for Top / Bottom yes anything you want :)
But we will be able to use the "bottom view" as the "Top view" for draw, move objects etc...?

EDITED: 6 Nov 2006 by PILOU

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
207.5 In reply to 207.2 
< do you consider a volume and a solid to be different things?

In the reality yes :)
You can weigh a solid, not a volume :)
Of course here the soap bubble is a metaphor of the "volume" marble is the "solid" :)

EDITED: 6 Nov 2006 by PILOU

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
207.6 In reply to 207.2 

About A "close" surface curve (maybe it's a dream )

<How do you mean? Can you show an example?

Just an automatic function "close" some hole (s) in an object when you select the hole 's edges
Seems quasi impossible :)
Maybe by some "Sweeps" edges one by one :)

EDITED: 6 Nov 2006 by PILOU

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 From:  jbshorty
207.7 In reply to 207.6 
I'm sure you know this, but for this box you only need to "untrim" these surfaces along the 3 edges. A new tool would not be necessary in this case... If the "hole" extends beyond the boundaries of the untrimmed surfaces, then you would need something like Rhino's "patch" tool. Or a network surface if just 3 or 4 edges define the hole boundary. No?

jonah
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
207.8 In reply to 207.7 

:)
My simple cube was just a "concept" for show an hole :)
This one show maybe better what is a "Yellow curve" closing an object :)

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 From:  Michael Gibson
207.9 In reply to 207.3 
> About the Curve start /curve End on a rail or path is this image more clear ?
> Of course curve Start, Curve End , and rail -path) can be any curve !

Hi Pilou, you can use sweep for this, choose the start and end curve, run Construct / Sweep, then select the rail.

But it is more typical to have the rail running down the center of the profiles, it is somewhat easier to control things that way. Sweep with one rail will slide the shapes along the path, and it will reorient them to follow the path. When you have the rail only on one side of the shapes, the other end of the shape tends to move quite a bit when it is reoriented (kind of like it swings around a lot since it is far away from the path). With a path down the center the shapes swing in a more "balanced" way around their center points. Let me know if this needs more explanation.

But you probably won't get a very good result from the curves in your image, there is just a little bit too many things going on there, there is the curve of the path and then having a circle change into a rectangle which is a major shift. To control the resulting surface better in this case you would normally need to use some more curves to define what you want better and maybe build it in a few sections.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
207.10 In reply to 207.4 
> re: SaveAs IGES

Hi Pilou, thanks for the additional explanation, I understand now.

What is happening is when you switch the "Save as type" drop-down to IGES, the current file name is remaining as "cube.3dm". So when you go to save it is using this file name.

This is actually a problem with the windows file management, it is just the way it works by default. However, it should be possible for me to customize it to make it better - in this case the file name should change to cube.igs when you change the drop-down to IGES.

As a quick workaround right now, in addition to changing the file type drop-down, you can go in and edit the file name "cube.3dm" to be "cube.igs", and then it will save as IGES format.


> Ps For the Tabkey for Top / Bottom yes anything you want :)
> But we will be able to use the "bottom view" as the "Top view" for draw, move objects etc...?

Sorry, I didn't mean the tab key on the keyboard, I mean the view tab-style control near the bottom of the screen that says "Split | 3D | Top | Front | Right". If you clicked on Top in there when it was already active, it could then switch to Bottom. It would behave the same as the top view did for drawing, etc... except for having the reverse view.

- Michael
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 From:  jbshorty
207.11 In reply to 207.8 
again, it looks to me this could be done easily by untrimming the two main surfaces, and then retrimming where they intersect. but what should happen to the 9 surfaces which also share this highlighted edge? They will have no edge to connect with. should they be extracted? Should they be deleted? If this were a closed volume, then what is expected to happen?
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 From:  Michael Gibson
207.12 In reply to 207.5 
> > < do you consider a volume and a solid to be different things?> In the reality yes :)
> You can weigh a solid, not a volume :)

But you can calculate the weight of a volume for a particular material, just with one multiply.

Like you can say "this volume of gold will weigh this much."

But CAD is typically more concerned with the topology and forms that define a shape, not so much with what material is inside of it.

Normally in CAD, a solid means an object that has a defined volume.


- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
207.13 In reply to 207.9 

No it's not exactly that: Sweep is not suffisant :) Look after the object C, it's near the solution :)
a mix of A, B ,C
Another time, I believed that a Sweep with one or two rail should take juste one curve :)
And not a cuve somewhere and another in the other part of the plan :D

EDITED: 6 Nov 2006 by PILOU

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 From:  Michael Gibson
207.14 In reply to 207.6 
> Just an automatic function "close" some hole (s) in an object when you
> select the hole 's edges
> Seems quasi impossible :)
> Maybe by some "Sweeps" edges one by one :)

As Jonah mentioned, there is a NURBS tool called "Patch" or "N-sided Patch" which is usually used as a hole filling mechanism. MoI will have this eventually but I'm not sure exactly when.

But even that tool is more suited for filling an area that is rather smooth in shape, it is not good for filling in a very large area with very irregular shapes.

If you have a very large hole with irregular boundaries, there is just no single definition of what the shape of the surface should be in that area. So it is not really possible to have a completely automatic system to fill any gap, any more than it is possible to have a system to automatically create the initial model's shape from nothing.

Just in the same way that you create the initial shape by drawing curves and constructing surfaces, you also need to create the filling surface in the same way, you have to draw curves and define what type of shape you want to have in that area (just as you are suggesting with doing sweeps and such).

To automatically fill in something complex like you're showing would require a lot of "artifical intelligence" on the part of the software... This level of AI isn't going to be ready anytime soon! :)

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
207.15 In reply to 207.14 

> This level of AI isn't going to be ready anytime soon! :)
This is maybe a good new :)
Thx for All!

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 From:  Michael Gibson
207.16 In reply to 207.13 
> No it's not exactly that: Sweep is not suffisant :) Look after the
> object C, it's near the solution :)
> A mix of A, B ,C

To do it just in one sweep, you would have to use a path more like this:



But it is a complex enough shape with those sharp swinging ends that are bunched together, that you would probably need to construct it in several different parts just as you have shown...

As a shape gets more complex with different corners and bunched-together areas, the less likely it becomes that you will be able to create it automatically with using only one application of one single tool. It is normal that you will need to break such things up into smaller pieces.

Sometimes it is also possible that you could use some additional shape curves to help define it better. With your initial curves, MoI just doesn't know that the initial shape is supposed to swing around more rapidly than the curve is turning.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
207.17 In reply to 207.16 
Yes :)
All that seems reasonable !
The discovery of the day will be the 2 separates oposite curves along the Sweep rail !!!
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
207.18 

I discover again than a "Sweep" can have any numbers of different profils !
So the "icone" of "Sweep" is some misleading :)

A funny & terrific thing is make a sweep and after select the rails / show Points, Add Points and move the points!!!
In this case (show points enable) does exist a trick for move the last point as a "tangente" ?
(only warm points, and axes seems work not the "tangent" (?) )
For the moment the only I found is draw another line as "tangent" and return to the point for move it on this new line ! It's no so bad :)

EDITED: 7 Nov 2006 by PILOU

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 From:  Michael Gibson
207.19 In reply to 207.18 
> In this case (show points enable) does exist a trick for move the last point as a "tangente" ?

One easy way is to just draw a line like you mention.

Another way is to select your point, then use the Transform / Move tool. Then drag a construction line along the tangent direction that you want.

The Transform/Move command can sometimes be a better way to move things with precision, since the existing object remains snappable, and you can also create construction lines with it easier than you can with dragging style movement.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
207.20 In reply to 207.19 

Yes!!! It was the "move tool" ! That rocks! THx!
Another time no think to take a "tool" for move a point, thinking that mouse's moves (or Pen's moves:) were sufficent !

Another little thing :)
That is a tangente with the last point of control "out" the curve
Is it the same tangent than a point who will be near the extremity and the extremity but "on" the curve?
Seems yes, but I ask the question :)

EDITED: 8 Nov 2006 by PILOU

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