xyz coords
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2064.21 In reply to 2064.20 
Hi Steve,

> SW reads the data and places the object according to its XYZ
> coordinates, it is just a case that Z if forward and the top
> plane is X/Z.

Right, that is exactly the problem - in a 3DM file the data is defined with the Top view of the data looking at the x and y axes.

If a different application uses different axes for its "Top" view, then it will need to remap the data it reads to make the object show up the same in their application. If they just read in x, y, z with no remapping the orientations will not match.

Usually most users expect for orientations to match, not just x,y,z themselves matching but with those axes going in different directions.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2064.22 In reply to 2064.20 
Hi Steve,

> There is no re-mapping on export of iges from solidworks, it is
> just a case that in SW Y is up, Z if forward, the output is simply
> xyz co-ordinates, so when imported into MoI then Z is up.

This could be easy to verify if you could export something like a Cone that has a distinct orientation as seen from the Top and Front views.

If you could post an IGES file here output from solidworks, where the cone has a circular profile from the top, and a "pointed up" profile from the front, that would help to clarify this.

- Michael
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 From:  manz
2064.23 In reply to 2064.22 
Hi Michael,

>If you could post an IGES file here output from solidworks, where the cone has a circular profile from the top, and a "pointed up" profile from the front




- Steve

EDITED: 3 Aug 2009 by MANZ

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 From:  Michael Gibson
2064.24 In reply to 2064.23 
Hi Steve, well as you said there is no orientation change happening in the data there...

I'm kind of surprised as I have not had any complaints or seen any data files that were oriented in an unnatural seeming way.

Is it the normal convention for SolidWorks that the front view is supposed to be the "plan" view?

- Michael
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 From:  manz
2064.25 In reply to 2064.24 
Hi Michael,

>Is it the normal convention for SolidWorks that the front view is supposed to be the "plan" view?


As far as I remember, by default, yes.
I dont usually work in 3d based on names of views, but from the axis. Only if I was needing to take model to sheet would I take notice. That was really why I posted (some time ago now) about the colors of the main axis in the views of MoI not being correct, so now work just from the axis icons (which I can now increase in size, thank you).
When I do work in SW, I just rename the planes if I find a need, but usually just take orientation from axis/ model normals.

I hope you can see why I was a little confused by your adding the ability to change the axis, but then output to a global default, as that would certainly confuse me if I was to change axis layout and then work from that.


- Steve
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 From:  Anis
2064.26 In reply to 2064.25 
Hi Steve....

I just reset my axis in moi to the default setting today....
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2064.27 In reply to 2064.25 
Hi Steve, yeah I see where you're coming from.

But many other people tend to expect to have labeled views such as "Top" look the same with their same model data in different applications, regardless if that has different axis directions.

3DM files are definitely oriented towards having the "Top" be a view of the x/y axes, there is even a viewport labeled "Top" stored in the file itself which has that view direction defined. I think it would definitely make sense for them to provide an option for reading 3DM files that would maintain those labeled views instead of maintaining strictly the coordinate values. I'm surprised that it never came up when they developed it, since all 3DM files from Rhino will behave in the same way.


I've also added an option for the next v2 beta that will make MoI automatically rotate models read in through IGES, STEP, or SAT formats:
[NURBS Import]
RotateYUpToZUp=n

If you set that to =y in the next beta, then that IGES cone from SW will get rotated so that it looks the same in the Top and Front views in MoI as it did in the Top and Front views in SW.


> That was really why I posted (some time ago now) about the
> colors of the main axis in the views of MoI not being correct, so
> now work just from the axis icons (which I can now increase in
> size, thank you).

You're welcome. It's also been on my todo list to change the way the axis colors of the grid works, to the way that you had been originally expecting.

The current system for that is based on a kind of older concept of each grid having its own coordinate system cplane. I wasn't quite sure how the CPlanes were going to work out for MoI, but now that I've got it worked out that there is more of one global cplane instead of a completely custom one per individual viewport, it should be easier to draw those axes with the colors you were expecting.

- Michael
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 From:  AW (AWSILVER)
2064.28 
This has me curious...being a "old school" cad guy: Pro-E, Unigraphics, Calma DDM, and (at least through v8) of AutoCrayon (AutoCAD) and Rhino always used a Z-up coordinate system. I know a lot of the rendering and animation packages use a Y-up system and apparently now so does SolidWorks? I wouldn't have though they would do that to a CAD solution or is SolidWorks really considered a CAD solution (excuse my ignorance if it's not).

Bizzare.
AW
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 From:  BurrMan
2064.29 In reply to 2064.28 
Great thing about MoI is it's your choice!

I think SolidWorks is considered a Midrange Cad Solution. (SolidEdge-PowerShape etc).
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2064.30 In reply to 2064.28 
Hi AW,

> I know a lot of the rendering and animation packages use a Y-up
> system

Yeah, a lot of times these packages also have z going forward into the screen, making what is called "left handed" coordinate system.


> and apparently now so does SolidWorks?

It seems that they do, but with Z in the opposite direction from some of those animation/rendering programs, so it is still a "right handed" system, but rotated 90 degrees.

It seems like many SolidWorks users wonder why it is set up like that, here are some discussions:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36775
https://forum.solidworks.com/thread/18310
https://forum.solidworks.com/thread/12775

But certain kinds of industries can put the labels in different orientations.

In MoI v2 you can adjust the labels to match whatever you want for inputting coordinates, under Options / View / Axis labels.


> I wouldn't have though they would do that to a CAD solution
> or is SolidWorks really considered a CAD solution (excuse my
> ignorance if it's not).

Well, "CAD" is a fairly generic term, there are a lot of different varieties of CAD programs and ones that are for a particular industry can be set up very differently from other ones.

SolidWorks is usually referred to as a "Mechanical CAD" program.

- Michael
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