this is why i didnt know that setting was there in the beta :/
you can see the little lines next to 3D view angles well if i click that i get to change the xyz . so ive now changed the z and y \0/ thanks steve

Hi Dave, something seems to be wrong with your installation there, that is definitely not what the Options dialog is supposed to look like.

It almost looks like you may have an older version of the UI strings there...

You might want to uninstall, delete that MoI folder, and then re-install to see if you get fixed up.

Also by any chance have you installed the IE8 beta on your system? That can potentially mess things up as well.

- Michael

no IE on that workstation. i shall remove the folder and try again later and see if it fixes it

Hi....

I have setting my moi3d xzy orietation same as orientation in swx. But when i open a 3dm from moi to swx the orientation is not same. Is this normal and how to solve it ?

Look image below :

Hi Anis,

> I have setting my moi3d xzy orietation same as orientation in swx.
> But when i open a 3dm from moi to swx the orientation is not
> same. Is this normal and how to solve it ?

In MoI changing the axis labels only changes some of the UI - it doesn't actually change any of the data that is written to a file for example. That's normally good because most files formats follow their own particular convention about which directions correspond to x, y, and z.

In 3DM files it is the convention that the Top view is of x/y and z is elevation. That has always been the standard orientation of Rhino and for 3DM.

It looks like SolidWorks in their 3DM importer has decided to preserve the coordinate values, instead of preserving the orientation. Really they should be rotating the data when they import it to preserve the orientation of the data as it was originally defined in the 3DM file, that is with x/y being the Top.

That looks like something that they should fix up in their 3DM importer. Have you checked to see if there are any options that you could enable in their importer to adjust that?

- Michael

Hi Michael...

No, there is no option to set the xyz orientation when import 3dm in swx. I can change it manually, but yes need more steps.

Thanks for your explanation.... ;)

-anis

Hi Anis, also you should have been seeing the exact same issue previously before ever setting the x,y,z axis labels in MoI, is that correct?

- Michael

Hi Michael,

>>also you should have been seeing the exact same issue previously before ever setting the x,y,z axis labels in MoI,

May I ask as to the reason for you placing the option to change the axis in MoI when the output reverts back to a global setting?

Personally it is not something I need to use, but see little point of changing the axis if the output simply stays to a default global setting.

You mention about applications giving the ability to flip/change axis on import, does that mean you will be adding such ability to the import of step/sat/iges files from application that do not use the same orientation as MoI?

- Steve

Hi Steve, it is an interface-level customization thing, it's for people who are used to looking at coordinates and entering numbers while they are modeling.

It allows them to do all those modeling-time operations in the coordinate system of their choice, they basically don't have to try and re-learn which direction is "z" when they type in a point.

But it keeps compatability totally present by not changing how things are actually stored in files.

Each different kind of file format has a different convention for how things are oriented and MoI already does the necessary conversions into those different systems at export time.

If I changed the actual stored data when you changed the labels, it would break all those exports with a kind of "double transform" happening and it would cause all kinds of orientation problems with the exported data.


> You mention about applications giving the ability to flip/change
> axis on import, does that mean you will be adding such ability
> to the import of step/sat/iges files from application that do not
> use the same orientation as MoI?

Sure, if that is an actual problem that people are encountering.

But for example I can't remember ever seeing an IGES part that was not oriented with Z-Up, I'm not quite sure if it is absolutely specified to be that in the IGES spec but it is certainly the standard convention.

I've got some IGES parts from SolidWorks before and they seem to remap their coordinates to fit the standard convention there during their export.

Similarly they should pay attention to the standard convention of the 3DM coordinate system when they read 3DM data.

If I started exporting 3DM files with the actual data in it having the x,y,z axes in different directions than normal, it would come in as the wrong orientation in all the other 3DM importers out there that do properly follow the standard convention.

Except for in this one specific case, it would be a big transfer disaster to actually change the stored data when you changed your axis labels.

It is totally fine if another program wants to use a different coordinate system during their run-time, they just have to remap the data from the file's standard orientation to their own.

- Michael

Hi Michael,

>But for example I can't remember ever seeing an IGES part that was not oriented with Z-Up, I'm not quite sure if it is absolutely specified >to be that in the IGES spec but it is certainly the standard convention.
>I've got some IGES parts from SolidWorks before and they seem to remap their coordinates to fit the standard convention there during their >export.

There is no re-mapping on export of iges from solidworks, it is just a case that in SW Y is up, Z if forward, the output is simply xyz co-ordinates, so when imported into MoI then Z is up.


>Similarly they should pay attention to the standard convention of the 3DM coordinate system when they read 3DM data

SW reads the data and places the object according to its XYZ coordinates, it is just a case that Z if forward and the top plane is X/Z.


- Steve

Hi Steve,

> SW reads the data and places the object according to its XYZ
> coordinates, it is just a case that Z if forward and the top
> plane is X/Z.

Right, that is exactly the problem - in a 3DM file the data is defined with the Top view of the data looking at the x and y axes.

If a different application uses different axes for its "Top" view, then it will need to remap the data it reads to make the object show up the same in their application. If they just read in x, y, z with no remapping the orientations will not match.

Usually most users expect for orientations to match, not just x,y,z themselves matching but with those axes going in different directions.

- Michael

Hi Steve,

> There is no re-mapping on export of iges from solidworks, it is
> just a case that in SW Y is up, Z if forward, the output is simply
> xyz co-ordinates, so when imported into MoI then Z is up.

This could be easy to verify if you could export something like a Cone that has a distinct orientation as seen from the Top and Front views.

If you could post an IGES file here output from solidworks, where the cone has a circular profile from the top, and a "pointed up" profile from the front, that would help to clarify this.

- Michael

Hi Michael,

>If you could post an IGES file here output from solidworks, where the cone has a circular profile from the top, and a "pointed up" profile from the front




- Steve

Hi Steve, well as you said there is no orientation change happening in the data there...

I'm kind of surprised as I have not had any complaints or seen any data files that were oriented in an unnatural seeming way.

Is it the normal convention for SolidWorks that the front view is supposed to be the "plan" view?

- Michael

Hi Michael,

>Is it the normal convention for SolidWorks that the front view is supposed to be the "plan" view?


As far as I remember, by default, yes.
I dont usually work in 3d based on names of views, but from the axis. Only if I was needing to take model to sheet would I take notice. That was really why I posted (some time ago now) about the colors of the main axis in the views of MoI not being correct, so now work just from the axis icons (which I can now increase in size, thank you).
When I do work in SW, I just rename the planes if I find a need, but usually just take orientation from axis/ model normals.

I hope you can see why I was a little confused by your adding the ability to change the axis, but then output to a global default, as that would certainly confuse me if I was to change axis layout and then work from that.


- Steve

Hi Steve....

I just reset my axis in moi to the default setting today....

Hi Steve, yeah I see where you're coming from.

But many other people tend to expect to have labeled views such as "Top" look the same with their same model data in different applications, regardless if that has different axis directions.

3DM files are definitely oriented towards having the "Top" be a view of the x/y axes, there is even a viewport labeled "Top" stored in the file itself which has that view direction defined. I think it would definitely make sense for them to provide an option for reading 3DM files that would maintain those labeled views instead of maintaining strictly the coordinate values. I'm surprised that it never came up when they developed it, since all 3DM files from Rhino will behave in the same way.


I've also added an option for the next v2 beta that will make MoI automatically rotate models read in through IGES, STEP, or SAT formats:
[NURBS Import]
RotateYUpToZUp=n

If you set that to =y in the next beta, then that IGES cone from SW will get rotated so that it looks the same in the Top and Front views in MoI as it did in the Top and Front views in SW.


> That was really why I posted (some time ago now) about the
> colors of the main axis in the views of MoI not being correct, so
> now work just from the axis icons (which I can now increase in
> size, thank you).

You're welcome. It's also been on my todo list to change the way the axis colors of the grid works, to the way that you had been originally expecting.

The current system for that is based on a kind of older concept of each grid having its own coordinate system cplane. I wasn't quite sure how the CPlanes were going to work out for MoI, but now that I've got it worked out that there is more of one global cplane instead of a completely custom one per individual viewport, it should be easier to draw those axes with the colors you were expecting.

- Michael

This has me curious...being a "old school" cad guy: Pro-E, Unigraphics, Calma DDM, and (at least through v8) of AutoCrayon (AutoCAD) and Rhino always used a Z-up coordinate system. I know a lot of the rendering and animation packages use a Y-up system and apparently now so does SolidWorks? I wouldn't have though they would do that to a CAD solution or is SolidWorks really considered a CAD solution (excuse my ignorance if it's not).

Bizzare.
AW

Great thing about MoI is it's your choice!

I think SolidWorks is considered a Midrange Cad Solution. (SolidEdge-PowerShape etc).

Hi AW,

> I know a lot of the rendering and animation packages use a Y-up
> system

Yeah, a lot of times these packages also have z going forward into the screen, making what is called "left handed" coordinate system.


> and apparently now so does SolidWorks?

It seems that they do, but with Z in the opposite direction from some of those animation/rendering programs, so it is still a "right handed" system, but rotated 90 degrees.

It seems like many SolidWorks users wonder why it is set up like that, here are some discussions:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36775
https://forum.solidworks.com/thread/18310
https://forum.solidworks.com/thread/12775

But certain kinds of industries can put the labels in different orientations.

In MoI v2 you can adjust the labels to match whatever you want for inputting coordinates, under Options / View / Axis labels.


> I wouldn't have though they would do that to a CAD solution
> or is SolidWorks really considered a CAD solution (excuse my
> ignorance if it's not).

Well, "CAD" is a fairly generic term, there are a lot of different varieties of CAD programs and ones that are for a particular industry can be set up very differently from other ones.

SolidWorks is usually referred to as a "Mechanical CAD" program.

- Michael