MergeLWO editor  1-20  21-23

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 From:  PaQ
2039.1 
Hi Michael,

Do you think it's possible for you to create a mergeobj editor version for .lwo files ?
I actually have some trouble to get a model back in modo. I usually use the quad/tri mode in .obj format to export my models (using the mergeobj editor to merge everything)
But I really need to export my model in ngone this time, because I need to create good uv's for it, and it's easier to do this task with ngones.

Exporting ngones in .obj don't work with this model, I have tons of flipped polys.
Exporting ngones in .lwo works perfectly in modo, with good normal maps ... however I have 82 objects ... And if I merge them in one object inside Modo I lose the vertex normal map.

I would really love to be able to keep my normal vertex map for this model :'(

Pascal.

EDITED: 3 Oct 2008 by PAQ

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 From:  PaQ
2039.2 In reply to 2039.1 




EDITED: 3 Feb 2010 by PAQ

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 From:  Michael Gibson
2039.3 In reply to 2039.1 
Hi PaQ, unfortunately it is somewhat more complicated to do the same thing for LWO files.

The way that OBJ files are structured, all that tool actually has to do is strip out a bit of labeling information and just pass through all the rest of the OBJ file and that merges it into one logical piece.

LWO files are not structured like that, they don't have just one ongoing list of all vertices like an OBJ file, each different layer/object in the file has its own individual chunk of points and polygon information instead of the points being counted more globally through the whole file like OBJ.

So to do the same thing in LWO would have to do more work than the OBJ one, it would have to combine sections and remap polygons. Not fundamentally difficult stuff, but enough time consuming that I don't think that I can cook that up for you right this moment...

It sounds like you are running into some bugs with Modo - I mean the big question is why can't you do a combine operation in Modo and keep the vertex map alive? That would seem to be a pretty nice basic operation to have available there.

And also the OBJ file has the same basic polygon data in it as the LWO, so there isn't really a good reason why the OBJ should not work as well as the LWO... Modo is sensitive to which point is defined as the first point in a polygon, and it seems like their OBJ reader does not do a good job of rotating the polygon so that there is a convex vertex as the first point. Of course it would be even better if Modo was not so sensitive to only look at the first points of a polygon to determine its direction and instead look through all the points...

I'm not really sure what I can do to help you just right at this moment... Isn't there any way to use scripting in Modo to automate some of the things that you want to apply to the 82 objects, is it that you want to apply the same materials to all of them or something like that?

- Michael
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 From:  PaQ
2039.4 In reply to 2039.3 
Ok, I finally find the solution.

Thanks for your feedback, indeed a solution has to be find inside modo, but things like that are moving really slowly for big software, so I did a request here first :)

Actually in modo I have a vertex map list of 82 maps, and merging all the objects into a new layer don't process anything inside this normal map list. I tried to merge
all the maps in one ... but it doesn't seems to work.

Probably a script is required (not sure if this data is exposed via scipt), I did some research on the forum, but as usuall I don't have a lot of time, I have something like 20 ships like that to build and shade in a week.

But anyway, here's how to process.

Export the in .obj (ngones), use the mergeobj editor, import in modo and just do a [polygon>align] to flip all the inverted polygon.

I didn't try that before because I remember having bad experience by flipping polygons in modo without having trouble with the vertex normal map. But at that time (is was the headphone model), I had complete flipped parts because the solid inside MoI wasn't closed, meaning that the polys and normal where flipped.

In this ship model, only some polys are flipped, so the align command work whitout having any trouble with the vertex normal.
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2039.5 In reply to 2039.4 
Hi PaQ - that's great that you have a solution that is not labor intensive!

The other operation that may help in Modo is if you hit flip twice.

I kind of remember now hearing that doing that will also rotate the points of a face to put the first point of it at a convex vertex (can't seem to find the reference now in the Modo forum), so that may be another option if the align tool does give you any normal map problems.

Maybe they have tuned up the align tool since the time you had the problem with the headphones, so that it does not disturb the normal map.


By the way, cool ship! I hope you may be able to post some snaps of some of the other ones that you are building.


- Michael
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 From:  PaQ
2039.6 In reply to 2039.5 
Yes sure, I have used MoI quite a lot during the project, I'll post some models later :) (and a couple of bugs too hehe)

(The double flip trick works too in modo :))
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2039.7 In reply to 2039.6 
Hi PaQ,

> (The double flip trick works too in modo :))

I believe that is a pretty solid indication that the problem with the OBJ import is not picking the starting vertex of the polygon in the spot that suits Modo best.

The way that Modo's (and LightWave's) orientation mechanism works, it only looks at the edges coming off of the very first point in the polygon, and uses the cross product of those edges to get the orientation of the polygon.

That is just not a good method to use, it is too fragile on more complex n-gons because if that first vertex happens to be a reflex vertex instead of a convex one, it will be pointing in the reverse direction, and additionally with this method the normal is not even defined at all if the 2 edges coming off of it are exactly colinear.

Instead of that it is a lot better to use Newell's plane fit algorithm which takes into account all the points in the polygon and is not so fragile to behave differently depending on which point happens to come first.

Really it would be better for them to fix this in Modo's core orientation mechanism (rather than in the OBJ importer specifically) to make that less sensitive to which point happens to be the starting one of the polygon, that would prevent this same problem from popping up in other situations as well.

- Michael
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 From:  PaQ
2039.8 
Well somehow modo = lightwave for many points finally ... it's an old concept in a new skin :)
Just get my copy of uvlayout yesterday, amazing piece of software for uv unwarping !

Works quiete well with ngones from MoI export (just had few crashes on some part, but it will be fixed soon I guess)



EDITED: 3 Feb 2010 by PAQ

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 From:  DannyT (DANTAS)
2039.9 In reply to 2039.8 
Nice origami work there PaQ ;)



---------
~Danny~
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 From:  Michael Gibson
2039.10 In reply to 2039.8 
> Well somehow modo = lightwave for many points finally ...
> it's an old concept in a new skin :)

I'm glad that they've got vertex normal support now at least, even if it still has some rough edges to work out that has been a great step.


Wow, that looks like a very coherent and great quality mapping! Very cool.

Are the spaceships actually going to be newspaper spaceships or was that just a test?

- Michael
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 From:  PaQ
2039.11 In reply to 2039.10 
Hehe thanks, it's just a test to show the uv's quality (more funny than traditionnal checkerboard :))

(a bit off topic, Is it a way actually in MoI to show when a solid is not valid ? (open or broken one) ... actually I test it by doing some booleans in, but it's not very handy)
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
2039.12 
Original for read the news of the day :)
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery
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 From:  WillBellJr
2039.13 
Great model, PAQ!

Heck, I sorta like using the newspaper for uv checking over a checker!

-Will
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 From:  PaQ
2039.14 In reply to 2039.13 
Thanks Will :)
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 From:  yannada
2039.15 In reply to 2039.14 

EDITED: 27 Nov 2008 by YANNADA

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 From:  Moe (THREEDFANATIC)
2039.16 
Very nice looking ship Paq. Love the detail as always.
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 From:  PaQ
2039.17 
So here's an other one, modeling time 8 hours.
The model was not really defined, so I was free to do more less what I want, the goal was just 'adding details as far as I can in one day'
I've still received a draft model, so the global shape has to fit in ... some kind of box .:o)



and here's the result, thanks to MoI is was really funny and the result is quiete ok (for something that wasn't designed :))




other models coming soon

EDITED: 3 Feb 2010 by PAQ

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 From:  WillBellJr
2039.18 In reply to 2039.17 
AWESOME detailing!

-Will
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 From:  steve (STEEVE)
2039.19 In reply to 2039.18 
very cool!
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
2039.20 
A new design of electric razor :)
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
My Gallery
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