Making Rope All  1-20

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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1972.1 
I WAS going to show examples of "not quite" efforts!

There are, potentially, some methods/ideas that some of you may suggest to provide a rope which follows a path!/AND?OR

Rather than being specific, maybe!!!!!, this thread could provide a huge range of approaches/alternatives?

Make my day!

Brian
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 From:  DannyT (DANTAS)
1972.2 In reply to 1972.1 
Hi Brian,

Didn't you already cover this?? http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=1523.1

Is it the same thing you're asking ?

Cheers
~Danny~
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1972.3 In reply to 1972.2 
Danny

Thats the reason I was trying to be less specific.

When you think of , say, other forms of rope there are a variety of approaches.
Think of non plaited rope, coiled, knotted and ? what else?

All/any new ideas from anyone?

Brian
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1972.4 In reply to 1972.3 
Will this expose some of the problems needing a solution?

Brian

EDITED: 31 Dec 2008 by BWTR

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 From:  Michael Gibson
1972.5 In reply to 1972.4 
Hi Brian, I would probably try making a smooth pipe like tube and then try to texture map a rope like bump or displacement map on top of that, rather than trying to actually model individual twisted rope strands...

- Michael
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 From:  BurrMan
1972.6 In reply to 1972.5 
what I would always do is take a page from the solar.dwg and start braiding the braids! Never had the computer to finish with my thought pattern. I like the first image B.
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1972.7 In reply to 1972.6 
Michael
That was what I was afraid of.
The displacement map solution is not very helpful in a lot of situations either!

Brian
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1972.8 In reply to 1972.7 
Does this plugin for Lightwave give anyone ideas for making a MoI plugin?

http://www.next4d.com/

Brian
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 From:  jbshorty
1972.9 In reply to 1972.8 
Brian, don't you have Lightwave already?
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1972.10 In reply to 1972.9 
Yes, but not installed (I don't like it) and, would I pay $50 for the plugin?

A couple of images if of value to anyone. (MoI/Carrara)

Brian

EDITED: 31 Dec 2008 by BWTR

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 From:  jbshorty
1972.11 In reply to 1972.10 
Hi Brian. It still doesn't make sense to model rope. It is so easy with displacement, both for faking the geometry AND for texturing. If you physically model a rope will be very heavy (especially modeled in NURBS then converted to polys). And then you still have the issue of needing to create a dirty texture map to match perfectly with the shape. You could bake an AO texture, but it would require a very large texture map because of the rope length. If you made a simple polygon tube, then you only have to make a small texture map for displacement, repeat it several hundred times along the rope, and use the same displacement map as the dirt map for your shader!

I just dug up these old examples I made about 6 months ago. A Rhino-Modo user was trying to model rebar for an architectural rendering. I thought he was crazy and suggested he use displacement. These were simple pipes, modeled in Rhino and displaced in Modo. You get significantly better results if you have an all quad mesh. In Rhino, I have a method for extracting perfect (subd-ready) quad mesh pipes. But for the purpose of making an example (the bent pipe) i wanted to try with a mesh as they're typically exported from Rhino. You can see there is a bit of choppiness caused by the triangulated mesh topology. But on the example of straight rebar, that one was a perfect quad mesh and of course the resulting displacement is much smoother (and using less intensive displacement setttings). Now you can try these 2 displacement maps and see what results you can get. If you make an all quad tube in your subd modeler of choice, I am sure it will displace a bit better than an exported tube from MoI. Also it will be much easier to create texture maps...

jonah
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 From:  Ray (WAGGONER)
1972.12 In reply to 1972.1 
Hello Brian,

I imagine that key to modeling a rope is in creating an accurate single twist at the correct angle. I just created this 'quick and dirty' test in few seconds using a single squashed sphere arrayed along a curve using the latest features in Beta 2 (4 Aug).
To get something more accurate I should need to study an actual rope. I suppose the real question is do you want a model to resemble a rope or actually create a rope? The latter will be difficult and resource heavy. And if the model you want has multiple strands then it really will require some planning!
There is some really sound advice already on this thread.

Ray
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1972.13 In reply to 1972.11 
Hi jonah,

> If you make an all quad tube in your subd modeler of
> choice, I am sure it will displace a bit better than an
> exported tube from MoI. Also it will be much easier
> to create texture maps...

Actually, part of MoI's advanced meshing technology also tends to make for all quad results from tubes just with the default meshing settings.

Here's a quick example - a basic tube:



Saved as an OBJ file from MoI:



Zooming in a bit you can see the all quad structure:



An all quad structure just gets naturally created there, so you should not really have to worry so much about going out of your way to do something special to get it.

In this example, there were actually 2 n-gons instead of quads created right in the seam area, so it was actually more like 99.99% quads and not quite 100% quads, but I should be able to fix that up.

The only exception is if you turn the angle slider way up to near the maximum value - once you get up to about less than 5 degrees in the angle parameter, the mesher will stop trying to get a totally uniform all quad mesh and will start using adaptive subdivision instead which will create a non-quad structure.

But if you stay below about 5 degrees on that slider you should get what you want there without any other messing around.

- Michael

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 From:  BurrMan
1972.14 In reply to 1972.13 
Wow Ray, Nice results.

I think Brian is exercising his modeling skills. A great way to become even MORE skilled.

Imagine modeling the rope down to the braid, then adding "Hemp fibers" all along the rope with the same array settings enduced by the rope creation. That would be an awsome feat! (however, one to many late at night and you end up with "floating hairs" :) )

Burr
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 From:  jbshorty
1972.15 In reply to 1972.13 
Hi Michael. Here is a quick test in Modo based on what you described...

jonah
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1972.16 In reply to 1972.15 
Hi jonah, looks like a pretty good result!

- Michael
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 From:  jbshorty
1972.17 In reply to 1972.16 
Yeah, not too bad! The only thing is you can see some problem areas where modo has a hard time dicing up the faces. I tried reducing the max disp edge length and the disp ratio to a minimum, but my 4Gb system ran out of memory. So this is about the best i could do!

jonah
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1972.18 In reply to 1972.17 
Thanks all--keep up the info!

Looks like I will keep myself busy today.

Brian
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 From:  all2000 (SPEEDY)
1972.19 
Jonah .... you are great-
tanks
al
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 From:  jbshorty
1972.20 In reply to 1972.19 
Thanks Al. But i know some people would strongly disagree :)

jonah
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