Forgive me if this has been discussed already and if I am not using the correct terminology. By UCS Plane (as in AutoCAD) I mean the default XYZ Plane. Can you change this plane from the default state to a plane that follows an object that is rotated off the plane? Can you create a local UCS? To further explain my question, say I draw an ellipse in the top view mode. I then copy this ellipse and move it up the z axis directly above its original in Side View. I take the Ellipse Copy and rotate it around the X axis so now the plane of the Ellipse Copy is cutting diagonally across XY and Z plane. Now it becomes really hard to make a new copy of the Ellipse Copy and/or do any further manipulations to this plane once it is rotated. Is there something I am missing where I can create a local XYZ plane, where the new Z axis would run perpendicular through the plane of the rotated Ellipse Copy? Sketchup and AutoCAD have a tool like this, if I am not making enough sense. If a tool like this exists is there a tutorial that utilizes this?
I'm a newbie, just started this cool program tonight
Cheers

the are no special plan other than x,y,z, all object can be selected move rotate from view to other view directly
there are 6 views (just click on the bottom icon bottom barr Right for have Left etc)
No special problem with your Ellipses
Use the "Helpers" click move your mouse without release for draw it!

Hi Keebo, there isn't currently any way to change the UCS (which MoI would call a "Construction plane" - but I do plan on adding functions for this in the future.

However, there are also several commands that do recognize the plane of an object and will use it automatically. For example if you select your rotated ellipse and then do an Offset of it, the offset will occur in the plane of the ellipse automatically.

Similarly if you want to Extrude your rotated ellipse, the extrusion will by default come off the z axis of the ellipse's local plane.


Also in some situations you may be able to use Construction lines to help out to get a kind of custom temporary grid - you can generate these lines by pressing down and dragging the mouse button instead of clicking when you are placing a point in a command.

There are also some commands that let you pick points more in 3D directly, such as Rotate axis, so sometimes it is possible to use commands like that to perform things such as rotations around any particular axis by clicking the 2 points for it, rather than setting a UCS in place.

If you can let me know some more details of how you would like to produce the additional copy-of-the-copy, I could give you some more details on how some of these tools could possibly let you do that. (if you have a .3dm file to post as an example that would definitely help as well).


But for some things you may need to do more of your editing in the world plane and then only rotate your final result into the slanted position instead.

- Michael

Thanks for your response. OK, I am trying to post some .3dm files with this message so you can understand what I am trying to do. For one, I think moi has the potential to fill a niche where organic structures can be conceptually modelled easily and I'm really for you to push this. I'm trying to work on an organic structure that is something like a huge rock (that will eventually be a structure in a built landscape). So I had a really easy time getting the main structure by creating an oval, copying it, moving it up the z plane. Then using the 'show points' command I manipulated the copied oval to give it an organic contour. I based my manipulations by looking at the oval just underneath the copied one, so that I would get an idea of the shape that would appear once I use the loft command. I would then repeat this over and over again, by copying the oval and moving it up the z plane, then manipulating in relation to the manipulated oval just underneath it. If you can see my attached images, I have a side view perspective of the manipulated ovals. And I have a top view as well. Then I have a nurb form of it to give you an idea of the form I am going for after I loft it. SOrry I don;t know how to make these images appear i n the body of this response.

The tricky (and crazy part) comes next. So I have this basic rock shape that is formed by me making its contours out of ovals. At the top I want to continue this process, but to start gradually rotating the manipulated ovals so at the top of the structure there is neck formed that doesn't just go straight up but bends and curves off to the side much like a stem with a heavy flower on the end of it. So you can see at the very top of my structure I copied the last manipulated oval and rotated the copy. I want to manipulate this new oval so that the organic nature continues to change in relation to the manipulated oval preceding it, but now I want the ovals to rotate through space. I want this to continue until I get a 'flowering' form of the top of the rock.

So with these ovals that I am rotating, ideally i would like to be able to scale them on the same plane. But more importantly, in terms of creative freedom, I want to be able to use the "show points" command and manipulate the scale and form of each skewed oval point by point. That way, I have much more power over how my final form will look, point by point. At the moment, if I try to manipulate each point in the new rotated oval, the manipulate points have trouble staying in the same plane and the idea of creating this form out of its own contours is lost. (I know I could keep each new contour level in the construction plane, manipulate it and then move it into position and then rotate it, but that is painstaking and that inhibits the growth of the form. And as Moi to be an artistic tool, it would be nice to remove any process that inhibits natural growth from the form itself.

Right a way, when I started using this program the abilty to draw free form and then manipulate each point I feel is the heart and soul of Moi. It's like having Illustrator's Pen tool in 3D and best of all you can sculpt with it. And even more so, by being able to add manipulating points to shapes like ellipses and squares has so much potential to really get sculpting in 3d. But your creative freedom only goes so far as long as you stay within the construction plane. Once an object is rotated into space your ability to manipulate points within the newly created plane of the object is hard to control.

S with the rotated manipulated oval at the top of my form. Ideally, I would like to look at the contour that precedes it and then by using the points on it, manipulate it to continue the growth of the form, but I feel like I kinda hit a limitation of the program now. If you understand what I am trying to do, I'd very much appreciate your suggestions.

Hi keebo, thanks for posting those files, that helps me understand what you want.

But currently MoI is not really optimized for the kind of procedure that you want to do.

Please keep in mind that MoI is currently at release number 1.0 - the focus for the initial release has been much more for simple shapes and your many-sectioned snaking big organic rock is a really complex shape and not something simple.

Right now for control point tweaking you would have to do the painstaking method of edit the control points in an axis-aligned view, and then rotate the result into place.

Scaling is something that you can do directly in place though - you can do that with the regular Transform/Scale command, the trick is to pick the origin point of the scale in the same plane. To do that, you can create a construction line that spans from one side of your shape to the other - you do that by moving your mouse to one side where you want to start the line, then press and hold down the mouse button (instead of the regular press and release click type action that places a point), that will drag out a construction line. Then keep dragging until you reach the opposite side of the shape and release the mouse button over there. That will give you a kind of "chord" line going through the middle of the shape which is on that same plane, and you can snap on to a point somewhere near the middle of that chord as the origin point for the scale. Please let me know if you need more details on how this part works.

The first beta release of MoI version 2 will have a new editing frame which makes the scaling in this case a lot easier, there are some handles that appear around the outside of your planar object and you can just grab one and drag it to scale.


I do definitely plan on making it possible to set the construction plane to different orientations, so in a future release it should be a lot easier for what you are doing here.

- Michael

Hi keebo, another thing I forgot to mention is that I'm actually currently working on a related thing for the first v2 beta which is snapping points directly on to surfaces.

This should help solve the problem even before being able to set the regular construction plane, because you will be able to create a rectangular plane object going through that curve, and then when you drag its control points they will be able to snap on to the plane surface.

I'm still in the process of working on this right now but I do expect to have this for the first v2 beta in not too long.

- Michael

Thanks Michael,
I've started using the construction lines, but in a slightly different way:
Once the oval is rotated, I extrude it to an arbitrary distance. i then use the separate tool to dissect the extrude and erase everything except for the original oval and the end of the extrusion. Then I use a construction line that passes through the center of both objects. This construction line essentially acts as a local Z axis to the plane of my oval. Then I copy and move the copy of the original oval up the construction line to a desired space. I erase what's left over from the extrusion and then I can work on my new copy by scaling and rotating it to how I would like the form to flow. it is still really difficult to manipulate the form in any other way, but I can assure you I am loving the program so far and look forward to how this develops. As I said before, I haven;t really come across any program where shaping conceptual graphics is really quick and easy. SO when I downloaded this program a few nights ago and already have an organic structure that I can place into sketchup is just brilliant. Just to let you know, I am studying landscape architecture and since we are more concerned about landscapes and nature we want our structures to be more organic and not confined to architectural lines....like sketchup, AutoCad, Microstation and the billion other programs that depend on straight lines and exact geometry. Also, we (I mainly) are interested in pushing sculpture qualities in the built environment whereas architecture is much more confined. It has been refreshing trying out your program and I feel much less confined by the program's features than other CAD programs whose intentions are so architectural and not sculptural (explorative), so keep up the good work!

Hi keebo, I'm glad that you are enjoying using it - definitely some of the stuff coming for version 2.0 will help out for the stuff that you are doing as well.

If you're using a lot of construction lines, you may be interested in the scripts that you can get here: http://kyticka.webzdarma.cz/3d/moi/#KeepCLine - those are some scripts that you can attach to a keyboard shortcut which make it possible to pin down the construction lines that you create so that they stay around for longer than just the current command. That may be useful for now.

- Michael

thanks michael this will be helpful
cheers

Hi Michael,

A user Cplane would certainly be good and very helpful.

I know you have your direction, but wondering (really just thinking aloud) due to what I do sometimes. Let me try to explain.

Normally for a user Cplane (in MoI) I will simply create a square curve with inscribed circle, I then rotate that to the Cplane I want, from that I have many options already built in to MoI. Other times, if I have a need to make more(a lot of) construction on such a user Cplane, then I will rotate all the model to one of the default Cplane. This does work for me, I am wondering if any sort of script could be put in place to manage that (I dont think so in V1,.. but possibly in v2?). To be able to rotate all from say a tri selection on a non-planer selection to revolve to base Cplane?

- manz

Hi Steve, I definitely want to add a set of new "Orientation" transform commands. They would be focused on doing movement + rotation of objects to align them with other objects in a few different ways, I think they should cover the type of plane remapping that you are talking about here.

- Michael

Hi Keebo,

You might also consider using other tools besides lofting to gain greater control over an organic shape without the need of movable construction planes. When you see my example you'll see I didn't use a lot of planning or forethought, but I took a couple of your closed curves and added some squiggly side curves, doing a network surface to get a fairly natural looking organic shape. Then having read that you wanted to extend a structure that flows into a blossom, I added another section of curves using a circle with edited control points as a profile. I used blended curves to create a connection to the main body, using a network to make the stem, but having spent only 5 minutes or so messing around with this model, it's not a good transition. Getting a bit impatient, I finished it up by doing a two rail sweep towards the top. Maybe it would of been better to do it as a continuous network surface...but it any event, writing this explanation took longer than to make the model..:-) I just wanted to present some other construction methods. Hope it helps.

-Jesse

edit: The cool thing about MoI is that with "history" on the construction tools, you can move the control points of any curve after the surface is generated to easily change surface shapes.