Nurbs Patch Modelling  1-20  21-40  41-58

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 From:  Michael Gibson
1596.41 In reply to 1596.39 
Hi Danny, well there are more subtle differences as well - for example in SubD modeling you don't push or pull directly on a surface like you would do with clay, you control a point cage and the surface created from that point cage is kind of shrunken and smoothed down from it.

It is a particular mechanism which works somewhat differently from clay.

Let me put it this way - an expert clay sculptor is not going to be able to sit down with a subd modeler and right away produce models with it the same as their clay sculptures. There will be a bunch of their skills on proportion and form that will certainly come over, but the medium and details of how you interact with it follows different rules in the specifics.

The subd artist needs to worry about topology, edge loops, arrangement and spacing of individual points in 3D space, these are a lot of things that don't really have a similarity in clay sculpting.

I mean don't get me wrong, I am not in any way meaning to say that the results of subd modeling are not art, just that it takes time and experience with them to really become productive and able to produce very refined and detailed shapes with them.

- Michael
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 From:  DannyT (DANTAS)
1596.42 In reply to 1596.41 
Hi Michael, I agree with the differences but you are comparing two different mediums, like sculpting compared to painting, both are art but different mediums.

Thanks anyway, I've learnt alot from this thread and know what direction I want to go with my hobby.

Cheers
Danny
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 From:  DannyT (DANTAS)
1596.43 
Ok, this is my hour attempt.
I thought I'd start with a 10cmX10cm surface produced by freeform curve using control points at 1cm increments.


Then created a network surface using these curves.
I have a question about this surface, when I produced it I could see little white flicks through it, is this normal, is it the graphics or is this surface not a good surface, I have no analysis tools at the moment to check it.
on the other hand it did trim and join ok.


Then all I did was push 'n' pull the control points to produce this nose, it was quite entertaining and educational. added some nostrils and you have a basic shnoz.



I think with a little more refinement of the mesh and finer control points you could probably get more detail, but as you said Michael it is hard work.

Cheers
Danny

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 From:  Ed
1596.44 In reply to 1596.43 
The grid with control points reminds me of those Pin Pression toys - "Press the Pin Pression to any object to instantly create that image in 3-D"



Ed


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 From:  Michael Gibson
1596.45 In reply to 1596.42 
Hi Danny,

> Hi Michael, I agree with the differences but you are comparing
> two different mediums, like sculpting compared to painting,
> both are art but different mediums.

Yup, no disagreement here.

I guess the problem that I am trying to emphasize is that some mediums are more temperamental and just difficult to work with than others. That does not mean it is not a good medium, but it does mean that a fair amount of time is required to become accustomed and skilled at working in it.

I've noticed a general trend over the past several years that the ease of use of subd as a medium has become quite exaggerated. People who have spent a lot of time getting accustomed to it can make it look easy, but you're not seeing all the hours and hours (and years and years) they have spent building up their skills.

Similarly you can use NURBS modeling for doing faces like the Jinwoo Lee stuff you linked to and were asking about. However, that's an even more temperamental medium for doing that kind of work than subd is, so it takes an even greater amount of time to become fluent and productive at doing that. That's why it is not commonly done these days, not because it is not possible but because it is a more time consuming road to take.

- Michael
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 From:  Colin
1596.46 In reply to 1596.45 
Hi Michael,

And just to confuse things even that bit more, you've got SensAble's FreeForm & ClayTools.
http://www.sensable.com/products-freeform-systems.htm

One of the Members on 3dcadjewelry Forum has FreeForm & a couple of others have ClayTools & they've done some really great work with it .
Here's one site with some examples.
http://www.harryhamilldesigns.com/Portrait.html

It really seems like the answer for those wanting something like a NURBS type "Organic Sculpturing".
But from what I understand, unfortunately it's very expensive & the system requirements are very specific.

regards Colin
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 From:  WillBellJr
1596.47 
Well if not NURBS patches, how about some FiberMesh methodologies added to MOI?

http://www.cg.cs.tu-berlin.de/papers/fibermesh.pdf


Since drawing curves within MOI is such a snap, having surfaces and volumes shaped by curves seems like it would be an awesome toolset to have. ;-)

I like how the curves always stay on top of the surfaces and also how features are defined by simply adding points to the control curves and then shaping them! B-)


-Will
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1596.48 In reply to 1596.47 
Hi Will,

> Well if not NURBS patches, how about some FiberMesh
> methodologies added to MOI?

That's definitely a cool system, but it looks like the final output object is a big bunch of triangles.

That makes it a really difficult fit with MoI because a big bunch of triangles would not be able to interact with MoI's existing tools which all work on NURBS objects instead of faceted objects.

MoI has a big focus on accurate type modeling, and that system is very interesting but for a very completely different style of non-accurate cartoon like modeling... It would be pretty difficult to try and fit both those worlds together in some kind of seamless way.

- Michael
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1596.49 In reply to 1596.46 
Hi Colin, yup definitely that SensAble system is an interesting system providing a different style (and oriented towards easier to use) organic / detailed modeling medium through the use of specialized hardware.

But yes, very expensive...


It seems to me that brush-based software-only methods like ZBrush/Mudbox/3D coat are the ones mostly on the biggest surge right now though.

- Michael
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 From:  WillBellJr
1596.50 In reply to 1596.48 
>That's definitely a cool system, but it looks like the final output object is a big bunch of triangles.

Hi Michael, yes I saw that the resultant meshes were hella ugly but the concept of using curves to generate shapes and contours like that I felt would be something wonderful to have for a NURBS modeler.

I'm certainly not a math wizz so I don't know if the algorithms could be reworked to work with NURBS surfaces or not - it "appears" like it would be compatible since it's curves that are used as input to the system, similar to NURBS...

-Will
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1596.51 In reply to 1596.50 
Hi Will,

> I'm certainly not a math wizz so I don't know if the algorithms
> could be reworked to work with NURBS surfaces or not -

As far as I can tell it is definitely on the "not" side, I'm afraid to say.

Maybe with additional research in the future they will be able to make it more adaptable in that direction.

Possibly someone with a whole bunch of specialized reverse-engineering type of NURBS experience might be able to generate NURBS output from that, but it would be a very difficult task.

To turn something naturally into NURBS it needs to have a very regular quad-like layout to it, NURBS surfaces are a rectangular net of control points. If you see something that is a whole mess of points connected in no particular apparent order, that then is not something that has a very natural automatic conversion to NURBS.


> it "appears" like it would be compatible since it's curves that are
> used as input to the system, similar to NURBS...

Yeah, but the curves get diced up (intersected with a triangle grid) at one point.

Just because something initially starts out as curves doesn't really mean that it produces similar structured objects out the other end...

- Michael
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1596.52 In reply to 1596.51 
Would anyone with Carrara6Pro care to fiddle with this using the Displacement Brush in the Vertex Room?
Love to see what people come up with.
Brian

THIS IS A FAULTY FILE_____DO NOT TRY TO USE PLEASE__SORRY
BRIAN

EDITED: 31 Dec 2008 by BWTR

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
1596.53 In reply to 1596.27 
@PAQ
yes Top Mod is a crazy prog for make easily curious forms impossible to make easily with other progs :)
http://www.topmod3d.org/

Where is the T-Spline converter?

Here some funny things TopMod---Zbrush :)


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 From:  Michael Gibson
1596.54 In reply to 1596.53 
Hi Pilou,

> Where is the T-Spline converter?

It's at http://www.tsplines.com/ - it's a plugin for either Rhino or Maya.

- Michael
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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
1596.55 In reply to 1596.54 
Ok I see :)
Is this sort of tools who is use in Rhino (as hidden tool) for the bender or deformations functions?
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1596.56 In reply to 1596.55 
Hi Pilou,

> Is this sort of tools who is use in Rhino (as hidden tool) for the
> bender or deformations functions?

It adds a different kind of object to Rhino - a "T-Spline" object which behaves sort of like a cross between subdivision surfaces and NURBS.

It lets you do some work more in the style of a polygon modeling program, but also get the final output in NURBS form.

- Michael
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 From:  jbshorty
1596.57 In reply to 1596.56 
yes. a kind of polysurface "with benefits" ;)

jonah
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 From:  PaQ
1596.58 In reply to 1596.53 
@Pilou

Nice topmodels !
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