Hi Steve,

I think MoI does better job than Rhino. There was some issues during beta stage, but V1 works fine for me.

Rhino has trouble to do a boolean operation on overlapping objects like in the attachement file (it is only for illustration, typically you don't do such boolean....)

Petr

Hi Michael,

>>it would definitely help if you could send any problem booleans over to me here for testing.

I did put forward simple problem with booleans from sweep surface. This you accepted as a problem. Such problem do go forward when attempting such (sweep boolean from solid)

From reply/ my further questions, it is a case that any further development/better performance on this will involve a better "geometry library" which, to my understanding will only be implemented in Version 2.

So, as I mentioned at the time, such bug reports have little meaning based on an old "geometry library" (version 1) when an updated "geometry library" will be in the (beta) version2 of MoI.

- Steve

Hi Petr,

I accept and understand some restrictions, possible problems. I also accept that MoI is at version 1. So I wait (I purchased MoI to show support, and a want for the development to continue).
But this "Cant live without it", is only , for me, a lack of use/knowledge of other 3d programs.

Regards,

- Steve

I love Moi :) makes hardsurface work a breeze, Organic work in silo, HS in Moi. Im in heaven

> I did put forward simple problem with booleans from sweep
> surface. This you accepted as a problem.

Yup, thanks for sending it - that one was a particular arrangement with 2 identically shaped sweeps angled and touching at a single crown point.

There's definitely a problem in that particular sweep case.

It sounded like you were possibly having problems with sweeps more generally than that specific case? If so then I would definitely be interested to know more about the other cases.

Like for example if sweeping was causing a lot of problems in totally different cases, it could indicate some problem with the sweep instead of a problem in booleans. So it can help me to know whether a problem is more general or more specific to one geometric arrangement.


re: Geometry library update - Just from my initial pass over the geometry library update, there seemed to be a lot of action in stuff related to filleting, so it is probably good to hold off on stuff in that area to see what those updates do for that.

But I did not see much with booleans specifically, so if you run into more problems with those, please go ahead and send those on over to me now. It would not be surprising to me that problems in that area are not corrected in this initial update and may require me to submit bug reports for them to get corrected.

- Michael

Very true, as with most things in life! Humankind was doing very well before cell phones and the internet appeared! But ask somebody these days to leave their cell phone turned off for even one hour. You would think you asked them to chop off their right arm... I like to use Rhino for nearly everything, but there are times (when creating technical diagrams) that i want to pull out my hair because it lacks associative dimensions. Every program has it's strengths and weaknesses. So we (as humans, MoI users, Rhino users, Silo users) are always looking for new solutions, even when our current tools are sufficient for 99% of our needs! However if someone feels that MoI is "everything they need", then that's cool too. More power to them...

jonah

Hi Steve,

> But this "Cant live without it", is only , for me, a lack of
> use/knowledge of other 3d programs.

Actually, most of the people that tell me about this type of feeling have spent a whole lot of time with other applications.

The big difference is that working in many applications is just that - work. It is just not common at all to have a kind of fluid, fast, and easy feeling when working with complex software. Instead it is just typical to get a feeling more like you are fighting with the software to make it do what you want.

Working in MoI gives a lot of people a really nice fluid feeling. It's not in any one single feature, it is a combination of dozens of things, like not having wasted space on the top of your window giving an open working feeling, seeing selection previews when you move nearby a curve or something you want to select, having quick access to construction lines but not having them pop up in your face too much, having a dedicated area for command options instead of popping dialog boxes up over top of your working area, etc..., etc...

It's the combination of all these little details all added together in one environment that gives many people a feeling like they are having fun when using MoI instead of doing drudgery.

Of course this kind of "experience" based stuff is not the same for every person, some people might not get that same kind of feeling. I can't guarantee that you will have fun, but a lot of people do.

But maybe that will help explain to you what other people are describing here.

- Michael

I too can`t live without Moi, all the other modelling apps seem clumsy and akward to use compared too Moi (I don`t do organic stuff).

I started playing around with 3d about 1,5 years ago and got frustrated trying all these different apps (a lot).
The first software that felt intuitive for me was SketchUp (purchased it) and have stuck to it until I discovered Moi.
When I tried it for the first time I was up and running in minutes, no other app that I`ve tried has this easy learning curve.
It just felt natural to me compared to poly modelling apps.
Great job Michael, you`ve really made an app that make me model the way I think without constantly looking up commands etc.

I model architechture for rendering as a hobby and feel that Moi lacks very little for this purpose.
There are two thing maily that i miss, sweep through sharp corners (see attachement) and object properties/layer function of some kind (I understand that You`re going to implement this in V2).
Are you going to implement "sharp corner" sweeps?

Ohh, one more thing, Moi inspired me look for other nurbs modellers like Rhino.
I downloaded the trial and kind of liked it, though not as fast and fluid UI as Moi, but had a strong toolset.
Love that you can import 2d dwg plans fairly intact (SketchUp looses a lot of the information).
I use it mainly for rendering (bought a Maxwell licence some time ago).
Would you recommend it as a supplement in the modelling department, or will Moi V2 suffice for large scene management.

Cheers :)

>>The big difference is that working in many applications is just that - work.
>>Working in MoI gives a lot of people a really nice fluid feeling.
>>many people are feeling like they are having fun when using MoI instead of doing drudgery.

Total agree with Michael.
As a matter of fact you still get into geometry problems with the high end apps so you try different workarounds,
the only difference is that you have 10 workaround options in he high end app, and the general attitude
around the office among the other guys is, Oh, can't do it like that, lets try this and because we have workarounds
human nature is very accepting and let the software company get away with it and move on.
On this forum we have come into problems with MoI but it seems that we have found workarounds and moved on, plus our MoI support guy,
is also the software engineer, administration, sales and Secretary.

Good on you Michael keep up the good work.

Danny

Hi guneriussen, I'm glad that you are enjoying using MoI!

> Are you going to implement "sharp corner" sweeps?

Yeah, having mitered corners for one-rail sweeps is definitely going to happen for v2.

But it will be for making actual sharp corners, it won't make rounded corners like your final result in your attachment.

Actually for rounded corners it is possible to do that in MoI right now, you've just got to round the path curve first before doing the sweep. Here's an example:

Select your path curve:



Then run Construct / Fillet. At the prompt that says "Select corners, or push done to do all", press Done or right-click to do all the corners, then pick a radius. That will fillet the corners of your path to make it look like this:



Now you can select your square, run Construct / Sweep, and then select the rounded-corner path as the sweep rail, to create this sweep in one go:




So if you need a rounded corner result, put the rounded corners in the path first and then your construction will have that all set up.

The part that I need to add for v2 is when you don't want rounded corners at the finish, but instead want sharp mitered corners at the end.



> Would you recommend it as a supplement in the modelling
> department, or will Moi V2 suffice for large scene management.

There are definitely a lot of additional tools inside of Rhino, for instance stuff for bending or warping solids, etc... So it certainly can be useful if you need some of that stuff.

But there will definitely be a lot more stuff for MoI v2 for handling larger scenes. If MoI's current tools are doing the job for you but you just need object management tools, then MoI v2 should handle that for you itself fine, at least that is what I will be trying to do!

- Michael

Thanks for the succinct description of Moi, Michael

A bit confusing. Two Steves here. I'll be Steeve. Who started this thread.

> But this "Cant live without it", is only , for me, a lack of
> use/knowledge of other 3d programs.

I never meant that Moi is all I need or that it (the current version) has all the features I would like.
It's just the philosophy of Moi and everything Michael descibed above that makes it a necessary part of my arsenal.

Actually I am a full-time modeller and always have strong urges to try out new 3d apps.
The list of 3d apps I have used and still use is quite long. So the lack of use/knowledge argument doesn't work in this case.

The fact that I didn't just buy v1 straight off means that my bread and butter programs must take precedence, and that I don't belong to any well-funded organisation...it's just me.

I often think when doing some job "this would be so much easier/more fun in Moi."

In so many ways, Moi is "right up there" for me.

Steeve

Hi Steeve, I'm glad that I pegged what you were saying correctly!

Some people tell me that they used to be perfectly happy with other things they were using, and then after using MoI they aren't as happy with the other stuff anymore. Sometimes I wonder if I should put a warning label on MoI! ;)

Thanks!

- Michael

Hi Michael,

>>>It sounded like you were possibly having problems with sweeps more generally than that specific case?

The problems where mainly after sweeping on a projected (to surface) curve, then boolean out the sweep from that surface. I did mention that. (making etching etc)
Unfortunately, I did not keep those models. I will try to find some time to re-build to give you examples.

What I did find strange was: I was making cross cut booleans, (when posting to the boolean thread) and MoI did fail on most attempts. I did then load into Rhino, and that failed, but, when I imported the model and made all booleans in Rhino, it did work.

Anyway, I dont want to take this thread further off topic. So any finding I make I will make new thread (or post to that boolean thread) or e-mail the models with explanation.

- manz

edit:

I have e-mailed an example

>>>Sometimes I wonder if I should put a warning label on MoI!

Yes Michael I think you should!