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 From:  manz
1572.1 
I did start this a while ago, but got "redirected", so I have now decided to finish this build.


up to:-

EDITED: 3 Aug 2009 by MANZ

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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1572.2 In reply to 1572.1 
Nice.
Where do you get all the time?
I have been busy the last couple of days on the computer but nothing done on MoI.
Brian
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 From:  Akram
1572.3 
Excellent beginning, i am impatient to see the final result (render).
Good continuation.
Best.
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 From:  manz
1572.4 In reply to 1572.2 
Hi Brian,

>>>Where do you get all the time?

I am semi-retired now, so can find a couple of hours a day to play with modeling.

- Steve
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 From:  manz
1572.5 In reply to 1572.3 
Hi Akram,

Thanks,

I will have to see how I progress. I usually end up getting diverted, but I will try to get this finished fairly quickly.

- Steve
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 From:  manz
1572.6 In reply to 1572.5 
Well, I did divert myself again, but have spent a little time tonight to add some more to this.


EDITED: 3 Aug 2009 by MANZ

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 From:  Michael Gibson
1572.7 In reply to 1572.6 
Looking very nice Steve, the railings add quite a bit to it.

- Michael
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 From:  manz
1572.8 In reply to 1572.7 
Hi Michael,

Thanks,

>>>the railings add quite a bit to it

I did actually enjoy making them, and it has put me in the mood to complete the model.

I also like the fact (after seeing a reply from you on another thread) that I can take high res screen captures directly from MoI (which I did for the above image), certainly saves time having to export/set up and render (certainly for an image to show progress/ non-photo).


- manz
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1572.9 In reply to 1572.8 
Steve.
How are the file sizes to work with?
Have you been able to satisfacorily separate/group the parts so they can individually be shaded in Carrara?
What file type/settings might you prefer for use in Carrara with this?

(if you have the time to spare!)

Brian
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 From:  manz
1572.10 In reply to 1572.9 
Hi Brian,

>>How are the file sizes to work with?

No problem. the complete model (at the moment) is 25mb in 3dm


>>Have you been able to satisfacorily separate/group the parts so they can individually be shaded in Carrara?

Yes, I have made various groups, rails / pillars / walls etc (these are in seperate 3dm files, whch I can load into MoI and then export for Carrara). When these groups import, they are still separate, so I can add a variation of texture onto each part in a group, its just a case of better management and each part is a lot easier to find.


>>What file type/settings might you prefer for use in Carrara with this?

I have now gone with 3ds, this does work better when importing the various groups, they import to correct position. Obj format do not load to correct position (I have looked at all the various settings on import in Carrara) Plus, the files size for the model up to now is under 2mb in 3ds.

The output for 3ds is the same as we looked at before~ "Angle at 3", with "avoid smaller than .5". It does look OK on the simple checks. If I do need to change that setting, I will let you know (I wont really know until I start adding textures and rendering).


- manz
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1572.11 In reply to 1572.10 
Thanks mate.
That all sounds good.
I have heard many reports on "limitations" to 3ds but it looks like the MoI/Carrara compatability is pretty good!(? is there a limit at which the 3ds file size stops working?)

Have you any learning response you can give in relation to

Display settings
Welding vertices along edges
Divide larger than
Aspect ratio limit

Please

Brian
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 From:  manz
1572.12 In reply to 1572.11 
Hi Brian,

>>I have heard many reports on "limitations" to 3ds

There are limitations, but mainly due to the lack of info within that file type (no UV etc). If I was wanting to export UV co-ordinates / textures etc, then I would use OBJ. But as I will be UV mapping/ texturing within Carrara, then no problems.

>>is there a limit at which the 3ds file size stops working

There will be a limit due to system memory. If a model is very complex (or with many parts with curved surfaces) then MoI will need a good amount of system memory for the calculations/ storage if you set the angle small, so some caution is needed.
As a little test, I exported the full model (as I am up to) with an Angle of 2 and did not set a "avoid smaller than",.. that produced a polygon count of 3.5 million. MoI during that time used 600mb of memory. Carrara did import the model with no errors.


>>Have you any learning response you can give in relation to
>>Display settings

In the output of MoI? I usually have that set to shaded+edges, I find it always gives me a better view of the mesh.

>>Welding vertices along edges
I have never found a need to disable that. So I always have weld on.

>>Divide larger than
It is an alternative. As you can leave the main angle high (like 12/15) then just divide the curved surfaces. But, as I have had no problems with the output when rendering, I normally just stay lazy and output as I normally do.

>>Aspect ratio limit
Not really something I have needed to use.


Until I start having problems with my renders, I will just continue to use the output setting I now use. "Angle 3" / "avoid smaller than .5". The weld is enabled by default, so I just leave that.
As they say, "if it ain't broke, why fix it"


- manz
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 From:  WillBellJr
1572.13 In reply to 1572.12 
I thought the worst limit for the 3DS format was 65K polygons max?

-Will
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 From:  manz
1572.14 In reply to 1572.13 
Hi Will,

>>I thought the worst limit for the 3DS format was 65K polygons max?

For a single mesh yes. But not for file size. If the mesh size of 65K is reached then the mesh will be split. (the last 3ds file size output I made was 63mb)


- manz
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 From:  jbshorty
1572.15 In reply to 1572.14 
I can't believe Autodesk hasn't done something to fix this. It's laughable at this point... I'm guessing that Max also triangulates your mesh?

jonah



>>If the mesh size of 65K is reached then the mesh will be split. (the last 3ds file size output I made was 63mb)
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1572.16 In reply to 1572.15 
Hi Jonah - well .3ds is a legacy format, it is the format from the old DOS version of 3D Studio. 3D Studio "Max" does not use it as its primary file format.

The .3ds format itself hasn't changed in like 15 years or so.

Really the biggest problem with it is that it does not support vertex normals for shading.

- Michael
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1572.17 In reply to 1572.16 
WOW!
Thanks for all that info.
It all clears up that "I wonder if I should" that builds up in the mind.
Brian
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 From:  jbshorty
1572.18 In reply to 1572.16 
Ahhh. I see. So what's the deal with their current primary format? No other software is able to I/O that one?

jonah
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1572.19 In reply to 1572.18 
Hi Jonah,

> Ahhh. I see. So what's the deal with their current primary format?
> No other software is able to I/O that one?

They've never documented their primary format.

Basically they set it up as just a container for plug-in data, and plug-ins do all the work reading and writing stuff to the file. So they claim that you can't read the format without the plugins running, that's basically the excuse anyway.

It's a somewhat valid excuse for some things, but also somewhat bogus as well, because there are some common standard plugins that ship with Max which provide basic mesh objects and stuff like that. So it would certainly be possible for them to document at least a core set of information.

But they heavily advise people to write plug-ins to run inside of Max to deal with .max files instead of supporting anyone trying to read or write the format from an external application. So that's what everyone does.

- Michael
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 From:  jbshorty
1572.20 In reply to 1572.19 
Interesting and surprisingly unsurprising. I see no advantage to this, except to keep people using Max... :\
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