Meshing Question - Trying to optimize my mesh.  1-20  21-36

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 From:  PaQ
1536.1 
Hello, I hope this question wasn't yet asked, I didn't find any thread about this question (but I haven't lost a lot of time in the research).

I'm trying to understand the meshing dialog box, and I got a stange result using a simple test object.

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Here's my object, I put 5 in the angle option, because I really want smooth curve in the red line area.




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I divide larger poly than 3, so I have a more regular subdivision, something than can be usefull if I wish to paint so displacement map on it later.


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Now I wan't to reduce the polygon count in the fillet area, to optimize my model a little bit. There are way to many poly so I use the [Avoid smaller than] option,
and here's the result.



I don't realy understand the result, the left side of the object is ok, that's exactly the amount of polys I need ... but I don't really understand why there are still so many
polys on the fillet right side.

I have post the .3dm file also ... the object is quite simple and clear.

EDITED: 3 Dec 2015 by PAQ

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
1536.2 In reply to 1536.1 
maybe this explain that? Maybe!
Wait the michael explanation :)


---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
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 From:  PaQ
1536.3 
Mister Pilou, how do you show those points Oo ? ([show points] don't show anything so I suppose it's another hidded command :P)

Here's a quick test in my eval of rhino, I don't get the half of the options, but I juste use the minimum edge length option to lower
the polygon count in the fillet area ... the result is more regular isn't it ?



(Don"t get me wrong, I don't want to make a comparaison between Moi and Rhino, I really love MoI :o))

EDITED: 3 Feb 2010 by PAQ

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 From:  manz
1536.4 In reply to 1536.3 
Hi PaQ,

For your example, I would be inclined to make a larger default angle, then divide the curved surfaces:-

EDITED: 3 Aug 2009 by MANZ

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 From:  PaQ
1536.5 
Yes, perfect ... ! Didn't think to increase the angle and use the [Divide larger than] to add details on the long curves.
Thanks a lot !
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 From:  manz
1536.6 In reply to 1536.3 
Hi PaQ,

>>>how do you show those points

Separate the model first.(edit~ separate), then Show points
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1536.7 In reply to 1536.2 
Hi Pilou,

re: same number of points.

Actually for export meshing, the number of control points in the surface doesn't really have any direct influence itself on the output mesh, instead only the actual geometric shape of the surface influences it.

For example it is possible to have a plane that has hundreds of points in it:



However, when exported as a mesh, this will create one quad:



That creates one quad because one quad is all that is needed to match the geometric shape of that surface, even though the surface was defined by hundreds of control points.

However, having said that, several surface construction mechanisms are adaptive and will construct surfaces with more points in areas that are more curvy or bumpy, so that increased points on the one side is kind of an indicator that there is probably a higher amount of curvature in that portion of the object than in the other side.

Higher curvature is part of the geometric shape of an object and does have an effect on the angular meshing parameter.

I still haven't finished looking at the one result that seems unexpected, I just wanted to give some information here about the "same number of points" part.

- Michael

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
1536.8 In reply to 1536.7 
I had said "maybe" :)
---
Pilou
Is beautiful that please without concept!
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1536.9 In reply to 1536.8 
Michael
In relation to that last post (.7) of yours, and I think similarly from other threads, how does one get all those points onto the likes of a plane please?

(I think this is a question where I missed out something basic about adding "multiple" points maybe?)
Brian
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1536.10 In reply to 1536.9 
Hi Brian,

> how does one get all those points onto the likes of a plane please?

Right now the main way to do it is to set up 2 curves at right angles to one another, that have the point structure that you want to have in the surface. Then you can use Extrude with the "Set path" option to construct a surface that gets the combined set of points in it.

See this post http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=1313.2 for an example.


> (I think this is a question where I missed out something
> basic about adding "multiple" points maybe?)

Right now there isn't any way to add points to a surface that is already in the scene, this is one of the reasons why MoI is not so good at the point squishing modeling method because it doesn't have the full set of point adding tools in it right now.

- Michael
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1536.11 In reply to 1536.10 
Thanks Michael.
BUT
Was I involved with MoI in January??
There are becoming such a growing list of, well, "workarounds" that worry me a bit!
(Are these sort of things collated properly somewhere in "helps"?)

Point2.
In most poly apps one can do a "soft selection" of points--in MoI, this can be done, in a way, but not to the same extent.
Be nice if this could happen in MoI later.
(See attachment)

EDITED: 31 Dec 2008 by BWTR

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 From:  Michael Gibson
1536.12 In reply to 1536.11 
Hi Brian,

> There are becoming such a growing list of, well,
> "workarounds" that worry me a bit!

Well, I'd say it is pretty normal for a 1.0 version to not have every single possible thing added into it.

Currently MoI is not oriented towards that kind of surface point squishing modeling. It is possible to do some workarounds if you really really want to use it in that way, but that general style of modeling won't really be a proper fit until I get a chance on enhancing and adding those kinds of tools into the software.

In general that style of modeling has not been a priority for MoI because point squish style modeling tends to be better suited for subdivision surface modelers anyway.

So instead of spending a lot of initial time developing features that are not in MoI's technologically strong area, I instead put a lot more initial effort into things that were more in MoI's strong area, such as booleans between solids and curves, stuff like that.


> (Are these sort of things collated properly somewhere in "helps"?)

Yup, this particular thing is documented inside of Extrude:
http://moi3d.com/1.0/docs/moi_command_reference7.htm#extrude

quote:
"Extrude with Set path has the special property that the output surface will have the exact same control point structure as the curves used to generate it, so sometimes this can be useful if you want to set up a surface and manipulate the surface's control points to deform it."


In general though I haven't put in a lot of effort on tutorials for surface point squishing right now because like I mentioned, MoI does not really currently have the full set of tools to do a proper job of that style of modeling right now.


> Be nice if this could happen in MoI later.

Yup, that is another one of the tools that go along with surface point manipulation type modeling.

I do want to add this stuff in at some point... It's all a matter of priorities, if I had focused on adding this right away then I would not have been able to do something else that is in MoI now.

- Michael
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1536.13 In reply to 1536.12 
"Yup, this particular thing is documented inside of Extrude:
http://moi3d.com/1.0/docs/moi_command_reference7.htm#extrude

quote:
"Extrude with Set path has the special property that the output surface will have the exact same control point structure as the curves used to generate it, so sometimes this can be useful if you want to set up a surface and manipulate the surface's control points to deform it."

Michael, I was not complaining about it not being "In" MoI. But the above, which I extracted, does not clearly visualise that workaround we are discussing----well, at least,--- to my old brain! (much better in your post 1313.2)

I would hate MoI to go down the (oh my gosh) LightWave track--billions of "plugins" requiring a dictionary for explanation! And, even becoming another Rhino!

I know it's a tightrope walk.

Having the "improved!" soft selection idea in another version would be great. I have the advantage of being able to go to other apps to get it---- also like the displacement painting! So, for me, its only a maybe wish list item really.
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1536.14 In reply to 1536.13 
I know--everyone said this ages ago!

Thought1. The "Add Points" could have a "Number Of" attachment?

Thought2. An "Area Select" could be added?

PS--You are allowed to shout out IF I have some original ideas---I need to print it out to show my Wife!

EDITED: 31 Dec 2008 by BWTR

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 From:  jbshorty
1536.15 In reply to 1536.14 
Hi Brian.

1) Do you mean to say "Add Points", as inserting knots into the surface? Or you referring to "growing" a selection (as in "Shift+" in Hexagon)? I think adding points is a very different thing entirely... Or maybe you did mean that? :\

2) Are you requesting to grow the point selection by a distance in both U and V from the first selected point? Such a function is handy but not as elegant as a dynamic selection radius which updates as you change your input.

I think your requests might need a bit more explanation...

jonah
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1536.16 In reply to 1536.14 
Hi Brian, like Jonah says maybe a little more detail on your requests? I'm not quite sure if I am interpreting them correctly.


> The "Add Points" could have a "Number Of" attachment?

There will be a separate command called "Rebuild" that will let you reconstruct a surface to a given point grid count. I think that might be the type of thing that you're asking about here?


> Thought2. An "Area Select" could be added?

You can force an area select currently if you hold down Shift+Ctrl when you click and drag. Normally you will get an area selection if you click and drag in an empty area, but if you click and drag on an object, you get object dragging instead.

If you hold down Shift+Ctrl then it will disable object dragging and do area selection instead even if your initial drag point was on an object, so it is a way to force the area selection to happen in situations where object dragging is happening by default instead.

Does that do what you wanted for this one?

- Michael

EDITED: 13 Apr 2008 by MICHAEL GIBSON

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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1536.17 In reply to 1536.15 
Sorry Jonah! if this old brain gets lost in termanology.
1. (Michaels post 1313.2) When adding to the curve with "add point", being able to sellect a number of (evenly spaced I guess) add points.?

2.Perhaps I am trying to ask, firstly, that you can actually do an area select of points---not really possible (in all circumstances) at the moment, but also, maybe in a later version?, that that area select is "graduated in strength" from centre to edge of the selection?

Sorry if my explanations are not 3D etc logical.

Just trying to add ideas to the thinkings.
Brian

And now I see a post by Michael that I have to look at!
Wow is me!
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1536.18 In reply to 1536.13 
Hi Brian,

> But the above, which I extracted, does not clearly visualise
> that workaround we are discussing----well, at least,--- to my
> old brain! (much better in your post 1313.2)

Well, that's the reason why there is a forum, to be a place to provide more information about how things work and to answer questions.

Over time I can incorporate discussions and answers given in the newsgroup back into the help-file documentation.

It is a pretty tough job to make the help file documentation perfect and answer every question about every task in the clearest and most complete manner right in its first edition! :)


> I would hate MoI to go down the (oh my gosh) LightWave
> track--billions of "plugins" requiring a dictionary for explanation!
> And, even becoming another Rhino!
>
> I know it's a tightrope walk.

It really is a tightrope - the tricky part is that each feature that you ask me to add in adds some level of complexity to the program.

Being able to offload some less frequently used functions to a plugin system can help to keep the core program more simple and easier to use for a central set of basic tasks.

- Michael
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 From:  Brian (BWTR)
1536.19 In reply to 1536.18 
Michael, that Shift/Ctrl selection offers some good solution.
Not in the shortcuts?

(Mostly I don't know what I am talking about so do not worry too much!)
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1536.20 In reply to 1536.19 
Hi Brian,

> Michael, that Shift/Ctrl selection offers some good solution.
> Not in the shortcuts?

Nope, the shortcuts are for custom actions that you can assign to a keystroke, like Ctrl+A.

This Shift+Ctrl option goes along with a mouse click, not a keystroke, it isn't the same thing as a shortcut key.

This option is documented on the wiki here: http://moi3d.com/wiki/Hidden_Secrets

Don't forget to check the wiki (http://moi3d.com/wiki) for additional supplemental information and documentation, it is kind of like a dynamic part of the help file.

- Michael
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