Massive joining  1-20  21-33

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 From:  lwan
1497.1 
Heya Michael,

I had an issue about massively joining many patches in one all at once, while doing it little by little finally worked and I've been able to join all patches. I can provide an IGES file for you to test if you need/want.

Regards,
Erwan
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 From:  manz
1497.2 In reply to 1497.1 
Hi Erwan,

I am just asking questions if I may? Did the join fail completely (nothing joined)? Did you attempt boolean union?

I have seen such failures in Rhino on attempts to join many non-planer surfaces/patches, due to sorting order,

Regards,
Steve
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1497.3 In reply to 1497.1 
Hi Erwan, yes if you could send me the file to test with at moi@moi3d.com, that would help me see if I can improve the joining.

Thanks,
- Michael
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 From:  lwan
1497.4 
Thanks both,

No I didn't try boolean union, will do right away.
Michael, I'm emailing a file in any case.

Thanks,
Erwan
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1497.5 In reply to 1497.4 
Hi Erwan & Steve - I guess it might be worth a shot but it is pretty unlikely that boolean union will work where joining failed, for this type of "big bunch of open surfaces" type of thing.

Although it is possible for boolean union to manage the same job as join, it tries to do a lot of extra work with intersecting objects with one another, it is more focused on unioning 2 pieces that punch through each other (like 2 solids that push through each other) instead of open surfaces that share common open edges - that's what join is focused on.

- Michael
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 From:  manz
1497.6 In reply to 1497.5 
Hi Michael,

I was just curious.

I have been playing with MoI, and I know such as join/boolean can cause some problem, but not as much as with Rhino. As from the ring model I made, that was from (for main form) network. Rhino(4) could not handle that without my further input of closed/open/direction etc. but MoI simply made correct construction. I am very curious about that ability, although I obviously will not ask too much lol.

Sorry if OT

Regards,
Steve
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 From:  lwan
1497.7 
well for what it worth, rhino joining worked on this piece of catia igs crap, so it might depend a lot of the object.
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 From:  manz
1497.8 In reply to 1497.7 
Hi lwan,

>>>well for what it worth, rhino joining worked on this piece of catia igs crap, so it might depend a lot of the object.

Interesting, I do certainly like to find any possible problem (with any software). I admit that my main use of MoI is for output, so have not looked at any import problems.

Any chance of the iges file?

Regards,
-Steve
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1497.9 In reply to 1497.6 
Hi Steve, did the piece that you had problems with in Rhino have overlapping surfaces in it? I mean did some of the pieces share surface area in common instead of punching all the way through each other (which results in a curve at the intersection spot instead of a common surface area) ?

Those types of situations tend to be more difficult to handle well, and it is an area that the Solids++ geometry engine that MoI uses seems to handle pretty well, although it can still get confused if you have quite a lot of overlapping pieces.

But in general booleans have turned out to be a particularly strong area in MoI's geometry library.

- Michael
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 From:  rayman
1497.10 
Hi Michael !
I too had problems sometimes with booleans where I
had many intersecting parts
Here is ane example of the kind of highly detailed arrays
that almost always fail to boolean union.....
maybe I´m doing something wrong but its just overlapping array !
Probably asking for to much ... to complicated model !


EDITED: 26 Mar 2008 by RAYMAN


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 From:  Michael Gibson
1497.11 In reply to 1497.10 
Hi Peter, yup that is an extremely complicated piece from the perspective of the boolean union code. It has to try and intersect all those pieces with one another and sort out all the results. A large number of edges and pieces running over top of each other makes that job a lot more difficult.

For something like what you show there, I would recommend working more with 2D curves - perform your array just on 2D curves, then use booleans or manual trimming to get the 2D outlines all finished up, and extrude it to a solid all in one extrude command.

That would be a more robust method for arriving at the final result in this case, rather than trying to make the booleans try to resolve so many intersecting 3D pieces.

- Michael
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 From:  rayman
1497.12 
Michael !
Thank you very much for the reply !
I thought this would be to difficult for Boolean oprations..... ; )
I posted it here as an example where one would run into trouble.
The idea of doing the 2d boolean first and then doing the extrude is a very good idea...
So I will try that out when I will do that type of operation next time.
Thanks
Peter
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 From:  rayman
1497.13 
Hi Michael !
Short update..... the booleans ad on curves are a problem because
when you do that all you end up is the outline of the whole rather then
having all the arrayed curves.
Boolean merge didnt do it either.
Maybe you could please elaborate on that Michael.
But for all who dont need it in 3dm format and have Vue Inf .
The weld command takes good care of the seperate objects.
I tried it out right now ... so as a good and maybe last resort that works out well !
Peter
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 From:  Michael Gibson
1497.14 In reply to 1497.13 
Hi Peter,

> Maybe you could please elaborate on that Michael.

Well, you could use some mixture of booleans to fuse together pieces that are more clearly intersecting, and in complex areas you can use Edit/Trim to cut individual curves into pieces and then pick which pieces to discard.

In complex situations, that kind of manual trimming should be able to get the job done where the booleans get confused.

If you would like to post a .3dm model file, I could help show you in some more detail.

- Michael
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 From:  rayman
1497.15 
Hi Michael !
Heres a file ..... would be great if you would just show me how to do the flower .
I have done a few tests with booleans and merge and the join etc.
sort of dont get a whole mesh .... always just the outlines or not joining rings....
pretty difficult !
Thank you very much Michael... !
Peter



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 From:  Michael Gibson
1497.16 In reply to 1497.15 
Hi Peter, curve booleans will focus on forming closed loops.

In the case you've got there, your pieces are overlapping in enough areas to create several closed loops, like here are 2 of them:



The booleans don't know to give any special importance to one closed loop over another, so you will get them all - the above result was from boolean union applied to the curves.

If you want a different result than this, you can use Edit/Trim to gain more exact control over what pieces to remove.

Here is the procedure to use Trim - first select all the pieces:



Then run Edit/Trim. In the upper-right area of the screen it will display a prompt for "Select cutting objects or Done for mutual trim".

In this case you don't need to select any other cutting objects, you want all pieces to both be cut and to cut the others. So for this stage you don't pick anything and just push Done (or right-click in the viewport).

That will then cut all the pieces up and the various fragments will be displayed, it should look like this:



Now you can select which pieces you want to remove. In this case you want to pick the inside pieces (if I understand your goal correctly).

It can help to do window selects to pick several pieces in one action. Like in this case you can grab everything by one strategic window starting in the upper-right corner and dragging down to the lower left, like this:



You can also just click individually on the pieces you want to discard, and you can also switch the Mode: option to Mode: Keep and click on the pieces you want to keep instead of the pieces you want to discard.

After you are done picking the pieces to discard, push "Done" or right-click and this will be the result:



Now you can select those pieces and use Edit/Join to glue them into a single curve if you want.

If your curves have a lot of criss-crossing areas, you will need to do this kind of trim operation to cut away the specific pieces that you want.

I hope this helps, and please let me know if you have any problems following these steps!

- Michael

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 From:  Michael Gibson
1497.17 In reply to 1497.15 
Hi Peter, one other note - if you had your original curve that you arrayed to be shorter and not end up criss-crossing over top of itself so much, like this:



Then it would be possible to select all these pieces and do boolean union to get this result in one go:



So keeping the kind of "excess" pieces down in size somewhat can make things easier as well, if you want to use curve booleans.

- Michael

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 From:  Frenchy Pilou (PILOU)
1497.18 In reply to 1497.17 
A very speedy method is just draw one Half petal
Mirror for have one petal
then do an "Array Circular" ;)
and the Boolean union (like above) if not fit on the extremities

EDITED: 26 Mar 2008 by PILOU

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 From:  rayman
1497.19 
Hi Michael !
You missunderstood me I´m not after this simple shape thats pretty easy....
Its this what I´m after...... I want to make some fences and fence like shapes.
I didnt manage to do the last step to boolean all together but I found
out that for big things to join together I can now use Vue 6 inf.
to make a whole out of the pieces.
Would be nice in Moi 3d V2 to see a merge option upon export (obj. format)
I enclose the merged obj. that came out of Vue and the non meged 3dm
Thanks
Peter









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 From:  Michael Gibson
1497.20 In reply to 1497.19 
Hi Peter - I see... In that case I would recommend these steps:

Start with one petal:



Use Construct / Offset and draw 2 lines + join them to make a thickened curve:



Now use Transform / Array / Circular:



Then select all these pieces and run Construct / Boolean / Union, that will fuse all these closed curves together, resulting in this:



This can now be selected and extruded:



If you get a more chaotic situation with quite a lot more pieces crossing over top of each other, then you may need to use the Trim method that I described earlier to finish up the 2D outline.

Basically any time that a boolean can't figure out how to finish your piece, you should be able to accomplish it by using Trim instead (with some more labor involved for picking the pieces to discard).


But definitely with a complex thing like this, I would recommend focusing on producing a full 2D pattern first, and not getting into 3D until the 2D pattern has been all completely finished up.


> Would be nice in Moi 3d V2 to see a merge option upon export (obj. format)

By luck I just happened to post an OBJ merge utility just a couple of minutes ago here: http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=1499.3

- Michael

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