Hi Keith, from the look of it, that is likely to be a display glitch - probably the display mesh that was generated didn't get enough triangles in that area to make it appear smooth.

See http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=1308.2 for some tips on how you can adjust some settings that may help (but can also cause an overall increase in mesh density which can slow down the display as well).

If you can post your .3dm model file (or send it to me at moi@moi3d.com), I can double check it to make sure that this is indeed the issue or if it is actually something wrong with the surfaces.

I will be trying to improve this in the future, but it is a tricky thing to improve it without slowing the display mesh generation down too much.

But if it looks fine when you actually export, then it is just best to ignore it.

- Michael

I'm sure its me. People are making some wonderful and complex things in MoI and I'm sure they would notice if there was a real problem. That said, when I export as an obj file and render it in carrara the holes are still there and get bigger if I apply render smoothing. Anyway I have attached the file.
Keith

Hi Keith - before you export to .obj make sure to join surfaces together so that MoI knows which edges are shared.

To do this, select surfaces that are adjacent and use Edit / Join.

When the surfaces are completely separate objects, they can get meshed with slightly different vertex structures along those edges, which can result in little cracks and holes.

But when they are joined together, MoI will recognize that the edge is a shared one and will do extra work to make sure the mesh vertices along that edge are unified and crack-free.

Here's what your hood looks like when exporting with joined pieces:



Let me know if you still have any problems,

- Michael

Thank you Michael.
Keith

Hi Everyone
This car building is driving me crazy but I'm very determined and not going to give up until I have made and rendered at least one exact model. I have made various bits of car but making them all fit together is defeating me at the moment. I have looked that the tutorials and other people seem to be making elegant sweeps that form body panels whereas I am making little fiddly bits that don't quite have any point at which to join together. Part of the problem seems to be that the blue print doesn't have the necessary information to make profiles of hidden parts such as the profile of the lower body panels where they join the underchassis. Another part is that cars don't have seams (especially the rear body section) so there is no obvious point at which to make a join.

I am attaching my file in the hope that someone will be able to set me on the path to enlightenment.
Keith

Hi Keith, definitely modeling a car is not an easy task.

One general tip that I would give is that sometimes it can be helpful not to try and model around every hole or edge that you initially see on the shape - instead sometimes it is better to model a larger sheet that has a more simple structure, and then trim that larger sheet to get some of the holes and edge structures that you want. You don't do this for every single piece, but if you are having a problem in an area where it is hard to get a surface due to irregular boundary edges, then that's the kind of situation that you will want to try this kind of approach.

I was looking for car tutorials, this one may give you some ideas: http://lmd.ifrance.com/html/audittus.html

- Michael

Hi
Despite the appearance of the attached I'm learning a lot. Hopefully the next attempt wont look so much like its been dumped. I now have great respect for Marcorhino and everyone else who makes such complicated shapes.
Keith

Hi
A disappointing result. I cant seem to get things to join up properly and sweeps and lofts get waves and kinks. It took all of Saturday. I have posted a couple of images if anyone wants to comment.

Hi Michael
I should be cleaning up. cooking and finishing of fitting doors but I'm looking at that bloody Audi again.

Just 4 of quick questions.

1. When I use the Edit/Join function am I trying to join surfaces, lines or points?

2. I have been trimming lines so that I am able to use the sweep and loft function, does doing so break up things that have been formerly joined?

3. In the tutorial you posted on building an Audi the car is devoid of surfaces throughout. Is it better to build things without surfaces for any reason other than because you can see the background picture? I like to see the surfaces as I make them but this might be because I lack confidence.

4. The Audi tutorial makes reference to making sweeps and blends that I have been unable to replicate. Does Rhino have some functions that Moi does not or does Moi implement the same functions in a different way?

If anybody other than Michael can answer these questions please do.
Keith

Hi
Sorry Michael, I have started to answer a few of my own questions through experiment and reading the threads. I haven't been joining up the points have I? Its getting much smoother now.
Keith

Ok I'll stop bothering everybody now. It turned out to be quite easy in the end. Amazing software!

Hi Keith,

> 1. When I use the Edit/Join function am I trying to join surfaces, lines or points?

It can be used on either surfaces or curves (lines) - when you use Join you will glue together 2 (or more) separate objects into one composite object. The new object still contains different pieces, but now it will select as a single object. Also there are some operations that you will want joined objects for. For example filleting can work easiest when it is applied to an edge that is shared between 2 neighboring faces. To get a shared edge you use Join. When objects are not joined, MoI does not have the information about which edges are actually adjacent to one another, it just sees them as completely separate objects.


> 2. I have been trimming lines so that I am able to use the sweep and loft
> function, does doing so break up things that have been formerly joined?

Nope, it shouldn't - it will carve it into different smaller pieces but it won't automatically break apart at joined areas, those joins should persist until you use Edit / Separate.


> 3. In the tutorial you posted on building an Audi the car is devoid of surfaces throughout.
> Is it better to build things without surfaces for any reason other than because you can
> see the background picture?

There actually are surfaces in that tutorial - they are just being displayed in wireframe mode since that is kind of the default way that things display in Rhino.


> I like to see the surfaces as I make them but this might be
> because I lack confidence.

It is generally good to see the surfaces. You can often times detect more details about the surface quality by seeing them shaded earlier. Things like ripples and bumps are hard to see in a wireframe display.

I actually did quite a lot of work to make MoI function smoothly in a shaded type display.


> 4. The Audi tutorial makes reference to making sweeps and blends that I have
> been unable to replicate. Does Rhino have some functions that Moi does not
> or does Moi implement the same functions in a different way?

There are quite a few things that Rhino has that MoI does not have yet. But MoI does do sweeping and blending, if you have gotten stuck on one particular thing, can you please post a .3dm model file of it and I will take a look and give you some advice.

Hope this helps!

- Michael

> Its getting much smoother now.

It has come along well!

Sorry it has been kind of difficult for me to help you since constructing a car is a rather large complex project. I can more easily help you with more specific individual details.

It looks like you have made a lot of progress already though!

- Michael


P.S - please post image attachments as .jpg like in your last file instead of .bmp - .bmp image files are much much larger and take longer to download.

Made my car less the grill. I was going to put it on using Carrara's texture mapping feature except it doesn't work of course.
Keith

Hi
I have finally made a car. A little bit of Paint Shop Pro but 99% Moi. Thanks for all the help people.
Keith

Well done.

Hi
I made the airship and building with MoI
Keith

Good job Keith.

Would you say the Rhino tutorial works as-is for MoI? If not, what did you do differently?

I want to try making a car as well.

Ed

Turned out very nicely Keith!

- Michael

Hi Ed.
The tutorial that Michael sent me on making the Audi TT was pretty good. I learned a lot about lofting and sweeping.

If I was going to make another I would have paid much more attention to lining up the centre of the car on one of the grid lines as I eventually mirrored one side of the car to form the other. As it is much easiser to make the hood in one piece than to make two halfs the centerline is critical.

The other thing that turned out to be of major importance was getting the shared points and curbs spot on. Its very easy to fail to join objects along their edges. The 3d view is good for this as its not always to align in the three planes at once in any other view.

You will find that its difficult (possibly impossible) to make some of the surfaces in the way that Rhino does. I found that I had to lean to use the trim tool to cut lines in such a way that it was possible to male sweeps and lofts that were not in the Rhino instructions.

I still don't fully understand how to use the sweep, loft and area tools properly but can get by. It is entirely possible that there would be more efficient ways of using them and in making the same car. If you want any help I do what I can. You can post here or contact me off the forum if you prefer.

Hope some of this helps.
Keith