How do I pan in the viewports in v5beta without using the Pan widget at the bottom? In v4 I can use middle and right mouse buttons to pan.

You must have something because it's exactly the same in beta V5! ;)
ini file ?

Hi Peer, there hasn't been any changes in panning behavior in MoI v5 compared to v4.

The available methods to pan other than the viewport button are:

MMB drag
RMB drag in ortho views
Shift + RMB drag in any view
Alt + LMB drag in ortho views
Alt + Shift + LMB drag in any view (Maya and various compat)
Alt+RMB drag for ZBrush compat if [View] AltRMBPan=y is set in moi.ini

- Michael

Pilou and Michael,

Thanks for replying. That's weird because it works fine in v4, but not in v5 on the same machine with everything set up the same except which version I launch. I just tried it again and get the same result. The only thing I've changed in moi.ini is to disable script caching.

One thing that might be strange about my setup is that I'm using a graphics tablet, so mouse buttons are emulated by buttons on the pen which are assignable to mouse buttons, keystrokes, etc. with the tablet software. But, I'm not making any changes to this setup when I switch from v4 to v5.

Any suggestions for how I should troubleshoot this?

Hi Peer, do you have a regular mouse you can plug in to test with to see if that behaves the same with v4 and v5?

If it does then that probably narrows it down to the tablet software behaving differently on v4 vs v5. Maybe it views them as separate apps and you'll need to set up button configuration for v5 in the tablet software.

- Michael

Michael,

I spent a few hours troubleshooting using a standard 3 button mouse and here's what I learned:

- An LMB click event is generated by the tablet software when the nib is pressed against the tablet glass. There's an adjustable pressure threshold for what counts as an LMB click event.

- When I go to drag a view it's usually from a state of not having the pen against the glass, so I typically hit the glass hard enough to generate an LMB event when I start dragging and may generate LMB events while moving the pen over the glass due to inadvertent variations in pressure.

- dragging views works fine in v5 if I am careful to either press the pen buttons that emulate MMB/RMB before the pen touches the glass, or to be careful to use such light pressure when moving the pen over the glass that no LMB pointer events are generated in the moments before I press the buttons on the pen assigned to MMB/RMB

- v4 is much more tolerant of how I touch the pen to glass while simultaneously pressing an MMB or RMB emulation button on the pen. Maybe it's a matter of timing?

One clue might be something that you can reproduce with a standard mouse. Drag the view by holding RMB and moving mouse. With RMB still pressed now press LMB and continue moving mouse. The view will continue to drag with mouse movement, but it will fail to follow mouse movement after the LMB is released, even though the RMB is still pressed. Pressing the LMB back down will draw a marquee even though RMB is still pressed.

Would it be a problem to override LMB with MMB and RMB when dragging? As it stands, in both v4 and v5 the selection marquee disappears after one or a few clicks of MMB or RMB while LMB is held, so there wouldn't be a loss of function.

Don't bother fixing if it's complicated. My workaround is to set the pen nib pressure threshold for LMB emulation high so that I'm less likely to generate LMB events.




Odds and ends:
- The tablet software isn't aware of other apps. It's just a mouse and keyboard emulator as far as I can tell. I thought that this happened at the hardware level, with the tablet control software merely changing settings in the tablet USB device firmware, but that's not right since Karabiner Event Viewer doesn't recognize the tablet as an input device. So, I guess it's some sort of virtual keyboard+mouse.
- v5 recognizes RMB pointer events generated by the tablet/pen: it triggers repeat of the previous operation and works for dragging if I am careful as described above.

- Peer

Hi PEER,

Just wondered if your tablet is some kind of Mac?

- Brian

Brian,

My tablet is a Huion, but it's connected to a Mac. MoI is running on the Mac; not the tablet itself.

- Peer

I have made the same in the past ;)
With an OTG connector for have a classic mouse connected to the Tablett (an old TAB A Samsung! :)
Find a remote prog like https://www.realvnc.com/ the only one who support the right click
indispensable for Moi3D! :)
And then you can use any progs on your tablett! ;)
So Perfect for work on a longe chair near the swimming pool! :=) (maybe wifi 20 meters)

Hi Peer, thanks for all the detailed testing.

So I'm confused about why there would be a difference in behavior between v4 and v5. There have been just 2 changes in view handling behavior between v4 and v5.

The first one is that on Mac it doesn't try to figure out if a scroll event is coming from a magic mouse device versus a trackpad. Previously it was trying to make a magic mouse scroll event do zooming like a wheel mouse and a trackpad scroll event (2 finger swiping) to do panning. In v5 it doesn't try to figure out if it's a magic mouse instead of a trackpad since there isn't a reliable way to do that. There is some description of that here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=10653.53 . But it doesn't seem relevant to what you are describing.

Then the other change is that on middle button down and right button down if any of Alt, Shift, or Ctrl is being pressed it will immediately start doing view navigation instead of waiting to see if it's a click or a drag. That was to address the complaint here:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=10550.6

But if none of Alt, Shift, or Ctrl modifier keys are being held down it should be the same behavior as v4. Does the tablet mouse event stuff also apply any keyboard modifiers?


re:
> One clue might be something that you can reproduce with a standard mouse. <...>

Are you able to see any difference between v4 and v5 behavior just with the mouse?


> Would it be a problem to override LMB with MMB and RMB when dragging?

I haven't quite got this part understood yet, I wanted to reply to see if either of those 2 changes could possibly account for the difference between v4 and v5 behavior first.

- Michael

Michael,

There's no trackpad or magic mouse involved here. Just in case, I checked System Preferences > Trackpad and that shows "No trackpad found."

Regarding the Wacom pen delay thread, something jumped out at me: you have a Wacom tablet. Is it a Cintiq (pen display)? If so, you might be able to reproduce the issue I'm seeing, though sadly I don't have a Wacom here to see if it acts the same as my Huion.

re:
> Are you able to see any difference between v4 and v5 behavior just with the mouse?

I worked on this more and finally arrived at something solid:
- do a MMB+drag with a standard mouse and while dragging click and release the LMB. Dragging will cease / freeze in both v4 and v5
- If I do the same thing with the tablet pen in v5 (with nib pressure being LMB) I get the same result as standard mouse: dragging freezes.
- In v4 it doesn't matter how many times I "click" the pen nib. Dragging keeps working.

The tablet is a black box to me. I don't know what it's doing. If it would be useful to you I can try to find another event viewer utility to capture what exactly the tablet is doing in terms of keyboard and mouse events.

I ran into another issue while using the tablet pen with v5. Sometimes dragging to pan or rotate causes the cameraPt and targetPt to suddenly get very close together which seriously messes up navigation:



The moments when the 3D objects disappear are when I release a button on the pen (I forget whether it was mapped to MMB or RMB and can't reliably produce this flash of disappearance).