I think there should be a sticky topic on this forum for users who have installed MoI, played around with it for a bit and wonder what next? It should have a curated list of the most popular add ons, commands and shortcuts.

Consider my experience:

I am watching tutorials on YouTube and notice Chipp Walters. He is very good at narration but his UI looks nothing like mine. No idea what he has done but looks interesting.
OK, so now watch his video on his favorite shortcuts and in the middle of that 30 minutes or so he briefly mentions a UI from someone called Max.
OK, now enter into Google moi3d ui max and I get a 400+ page topic on here.
The first post of the topic is the description but the version for MoI 4.0 is on a different page, but separated from the description of how to use it.
OK, got it installed now see that a bunch of things are missing from it.
Enter into Google moi3d custom ui lighting addon
Now I find a discussion about a different user who has written an add on that apparently CustomUI works with. Read through another forum thread. I struggled to get that one installed because now there is discussion about two different appdata folders.
More research on the forum to understand that but got the add on installed.
However CustomUI does not recognize it. Did I install it correctly? Try again. Same result.
Ah - seems I have to assign a keyboard shortcut, paste some javascript in there, run it once and NOW CustomUI sees it.
OK, onto the next thing - bridge.
Search on the forum for 'bridge' and it's all about connecting MoI to other applications such as Blender.
Go back to CustomUI and try again - notice it says 'sbridge'.
Now search on Google for moi3d sbridge and find Max's page with all of his add ons.
Begin tediously installing the add ons one by one.
But I am not done yet.
The nodeedit button in CustomUI brings up a blank window and does nothing, even though I have the nodebundle installed (another add on that requires lots of research and reading through large threads).
I now have to go into the appdata folder and find the htm file for CustomUI and start reading javascript to understand that it is hard-coded to look in the MoI appdata subfolder nodeeditor. Well I have it inside the MoI ProgramFiles folder where it works just fine.
OK, now copy nodeeditor from ProgramFiles to appdata. Now it works.

Hours of effort spent just so I can make my copy of MoI look like tutorials I am trying to follow on YouTube.

I know what you are going to say - everyone has different needs and requirements, etc., etc. but my thought here is to provide a single point giving an introductory setup for new users.

I think that most of the people on this forum are hard-core MoI users that read through and soak up everything so to them this is all very obvious. But what about the non-technical user who doesn't have time to research and wants to get the most out of the software they have just purchased? I think this is a marketing opportunity for Michael.

Andy

Hi Andy,

re:
> I think there should be a sticky topic on this forum for users who have installed MoI, played around
> with it for a bit and wonder what next? It should have a curated list of the most popular add ons,
> commands and shortcuts.

You've just described the "Resources" page on the wiki here:
http://moi3d.com/resources

- Michael

Where on that page does it give step-by-step instructions for everything I spent hours searching and doing? Can you please give me the link?

If I do a text search on that page for "customui" there are no results.

OK, so I could go to that page, click on the link for Max's scripts (just at random, no idea who he is), scroll through his pages, click on CustomUI (thinking it may be interesting - there is no description or screenshot), download it, no instructions included, go back to his page, click on the forum link, be presented with a 400+ page thread.

Do you really think that is user-friendly for new MoI users??

Thanks, Andy

What would be really cool is for someone to bundle together a "starter collection" of add ons and commands into an installer that when run puts everything where it needs to be in one go without any searching, reading, or technical knowledge.

I bet average users don't care about one appdata folder never mind two.

Andy

Hi Andy, there are links to Petr's MoI page and Max's file archive on that page. Those contain the most frequently used scripts just like you're asking about. There are also links to tutorials. That's the place where things like this are gathered up.


> Do you really think that is user-friendly for new MoI users??

Optimizing the experience of installing mods is just not a focus area for MoI currently.

Basically the problems you are describing is a sign to me that it's a bad idea for tutorials to be done using customized UI instead of just the standard UI. Because some users get obsessed with chasing down that UI and think it's important for them when it isn't.


> Where on that page does it give step-by-step instructions for everything I spent hours
> searching and doing?

Why did you think it was necessary to spend all these hours applying mods? What benefit do you think that you've gained by doing that?

- Michael

re:

> What would be really cool is for someone to bundle together a "starter collection" of
> add ons and commands into an installer that when run puts everything where it needs
> to be in one go without any searching, reading, or technical knowledge.

Burr has a collection like that. There's a link to it on the Resources page.

Why are you so focused on getting add-ons? Many of them are for helping someone with a very specific or specialized task.

My recommendation would be to forget about add-ons especially while you are starting out. You can look for them later on when you're trying to optimize some specific workflow and you've gotten comfortable with just regular MoI operation.

- Michael

Well first of all looking at Chipp's tutorials it is impossible to follow along what he is doing without it.

Secondly I liked the idea of the lighting presets and I saw that Chipp was able to quickly change them. That then required CustomUI.

What does it matter why I wanted to explore the possibilities of MoI? The fact is that it is can do it and it is available. I wanted to see what it could give me and how it could improve my experience. I wouldn't know that without trying it, would I?

IMO the radial pattern add on is amazing and if I knew it existed before it would have helped me.

Andy

You have my little site where all functions are in videos explained...but sorry that is in French !
https://moiscript.weebly.com

I checked the Resources page and it has:

"Burr's script archive - collection of scripts posted on the forum"

That is very vague and besides, is CustomUI a script? I'm not sure.

OK, so I click on that and I get a forum post with:

"Here are 2 folders. Scripts and commands."

That is also very vague. Why would I think that is some kind of "starter pack" like I mentioned? I can't tell what is in it. There are no screenshots, no descriptions.

This is not BurrMan's fault, it's up to you to market your software and promote the best the community has to offer in a way that appeals to the majority of your userbase.

The resources page also fails to give any kind of priority - I would consider CustomUI more of a foundation so it is quite important.

There are no screenshots.

It's just a random collection of undirected points for more research. That is not what I was suggesting at all and I am sorry if you missed my point and can't see the issue I am describing. :(

Andy

That's great, and I am glad you can see what I am talking about! I don't speak French though despite trying for five years in school.

Oh, wait, I can ask where the discotheque is! :)

Andy

Hi Andy,

re:
> What does it matter why I wanted to explore the possibilities of MoI?

Because you're complaining about it. It's helpful for me to know if you're complaining about something if there is an actual reason for or not.

I can understand that it may be fun to explore every possible use of MoI but I'm more focused on doing things that help someone's actual work they are trying to do, not so much on just endless exploration.


> Well first of all looking at Chipp's tutorials it is impossible to follow along what he is doing without it.

Ok, then what I'd recommend is not looking at Chipp's tutorials while you are still a beginner. Those are something you can dig into at a later time when you've already gained proficiency in using the main areas that MoI is currently focused on.


> I wanted to see what it could give me and how it could improve my experience.

The problem is you are prematurely trying to improve your experience before you've actually gained experience in the regular primary targeted use of MoI.


In the future I do want to improve the process of discovering and installing add-ons. I'd like to make something like a "scripts browser" that would let you browse through a centralized depository and install by some button or checkbox control or something like that.

It will take quite a bit of work to do that so I'm not sure when it will happen. Currently it is not a top priority.

- Michael

It's like going to the hardware store. When you go in do you go straight to what you need and leave? Or do you browse around to see what they have so that in the future when there is a problem to solve you know a solution exists at the hardware store?

You currently do not have the shelving to display things on in a way that people can browse and make sense of it and know what is available.

But also you don't have a cash register. You have one of those old clunky carbon copy credit card machines that are fiddly and take time to obtain the item you want.

:)

Your amazing community here has taken the time to create lots of great add ons. You just now need to create the shelving to display them and make the most of their work.

As I said in my first post, this is a marketing issue. New features are nice but without marketing leading to sales there is no budget for new features.

Andy

Hi Andy, well yes actually I find marketing distasteful and have tried to get away with as little as possible. It is unusual but it has worked out fine for me. If you have a good enough and different enough and useful enough product that stays around for long enough you can get enough word of mouth to do marketing.

I will probably be doing a little effort towards regular marketing at some point here though.


> It's like going to the hardware store. When you go in do you go straight to what you
> need and leave? Or do you browse around to see what they have so that in the future
> when there is a problem to solve you know a solution exists at the hardware store?

Well the case here is more like you're going into a super gigantic hardware store that has a lot of items on the shelves that were custom built to solve just one person's specific problem or workflow use case.

If it takes a long time to browse through those things and you don't want to spend that time then the solution is just "don't do it".

Like I said I do want to make a plug-in browsing system which would do what you want here. LIke many things it will take time to work on it and I haven't been able to get to it as of yet.

- Michael

The steps I outlined in my first post covered about 10 add ons. Is that considered "super gigantic"? That's all that I have installed.

In my first post I wrote "the most popular add ons". Doesn't things like rotation patterns, Custom UI, lighting, nodeeditor, etc. have wide appeal? I'm not sure why you mention about adds ons with specialized one-time use.

My *entire* point is highlighting and focusing on the most useful items, making them easy to find and easy to install.

Andy

Hi Andy,

re:
> Doesn't things like rotation patterns, Custom UI, lighting, nodeeditor, etc. have wide appeal?

Nope.


> My *entire* point is highlighting and focusing on the most useful items, making them
> easy to find and easy to install.

I am in agreement with you that it would be desirable to improve this function in MoI and I do want to do so in the future.

- Michael

Good day.
The first thing I did when I bought Moi3d is to buy a Moi3d course on gumroad > https://gumroad.com/l/vavRq

Well worth it.

I started to customize the ui as well but I was wasting too much time on it so now my ui is mostly original and use very few scripts.

when I bought moi I watched these three videos https://moi3d.com/3.0/docs/tutorials.htm and read the help files. It took around a week to get up and running. I think one of the first things I made was a bathtub. A week is no time at all to learn enough to get going in 3D software. As I got more comfortable with Moi I began adding scripts and doing more with it.

Hi Andy,
""""""Hours of effort spent just so I can make my copy of MoI look like tutorials I am trying to follow on YouTube."""""

So trying to make your UI look like Chipps, from 6 years ago?

This is your error. Even Chipp's UI has changed since then!!!

The forum is your answer. If you need something. Just ask. Someone here will help you out.

Customizing the UI??? That's a personal endeavor. Endeavor to persevere!

Hi Andy,
Also, the information is mostly there on the resources page.

Like all of Max's work. And it's not "cryptic or undocumented" they have a little link to the forum post with its description, install and use instructions, etc... it's a little grey button that says "forum thread"....

But the fact that it leads you to a 467 post thread is not "bad". Thats where you read about its installation and use and issues and triumphs others have had, and other customizations made along the way.

"FULL DOCUMENTATION" that you are requesting.

The CustomUI gives access to all of the built in functionality of MoI via it's menu system. I prefer point and click to memorizing lots of keyboard shortcuts or memorizing what I can enter after pressing tab. It's just the way I like to work. What is the problem with me wanting to do that? Why all of the resistance?

I don't really consider it "customizing", but more unlocking what is there and make it easier for me to use.

Who has time to read 400 pages of forum posts? Sorry, I don't. I would prefer a "follow steps X, and Y to get Z". If getting Z requires lots of research then it's too complicated IMO.

Andy