Hi Pozero, well if you can create the model that you want then it should be fine... You should be able to assign bones to a model that was originally made in MoI just the same as assigning bones to any other imported polygon data.

But most people don't use MoI for this type of thing because MoI's overall toolset and mechanisms are oriented more towards industrial / semi-mechanical type modeling and not doing highly detailed organic shapes.

One big area of character modeling is doing faces. Faces are just easier to do in a polygon modeling program since their toolset is focused on sort of a "sculpting" type approach where you push and pull points in the 3D cage mesh to adjust shapes. They have a lot of tools that are specifically designed to do a lot of fine tuning adjustements to the point cage to do this.

MoI is focused on a much different approach of modeling - more drawing outline curves and then constructing surfaces from them, I usually compare it more to drawing or illustration rather than sculpting.

The polygon modeler approach I think is more like sculpting since you pull and push more directly on little bits of the surface to change it.

These different modeling styles tend to have strong points in building different types of models. Sculpting is great for faces and characters, but not good for industrial or mechanical type shapes. The drawing and construction type approach is great for industrial/mechanical but not as good for shapes with very small details and folds in them like faces and characters often have.

If your character is more simplified and not super detailed with little wrinkles and folds, then MoI's drawing type approach will tend to be ok for that type of thing.

- Michael

Well the thing I like THE MOST in MoI is just the pricisely modeling and changing shapes. In sculpting apps I don't know hot to get so precise and straight lines look like I do in MoI, so he is my favourite app for this. After all if I can't do some details on my character I will export my model from MoI to some sculpting app and done it there.
For example, I using MoI to make a Shark which I will later import in Poser and attach to one human character so that I could get SharkMan :-)
Here I attached rough scatch of Sharks body I modeled in MoI (Loft and Sweep options) and body attached to human character so that you can see what are my plans. Now I need to bone this shark so that I could move tail and jaws (which are not included in the pic).
Is there some app where I can adjust look of my mesh because I think that I need more polygones here ???

Thanks

any applications who can reload obj format can adjust your mesh :)
for beginner the more easy and free is Anim8Or http://www.anim8or.com
(you can make animation with it also )

Thanks Pilou, I have Anim8or but I don't, know how to use :-) well, I guess I have to go on Anim8or forum.

Just see the manual for have an over view!
http://www.anim8or.com/manual/index.html
It's the more easy prog for begin the 3D :)

Hi Pozero, that can work out pretty well to construct some of the broader shapes of your character in MoI and then switch to a polygon program to add finer small details.

The only thing is that manipulating polygons is a lot different process than the type of sweep and loft modeling that you've done in MoI. I think it will take some time and practice to get comfortable with it.

- Michael

I have to say that sharkman had me chuckling quite nicely! Reminds me of a SciFi channel show about the same thing too, a genetically altered shark man!

If your characters don't require a >continuous mesh< (robots are a good example) or cartoon chars that have the separate body pieces hidden under clothing then MOI is good or great for those kinds of characters.

If you need a 1-piece or continuous mesh then while MOI will give you a decent (ngon) mesh, it may not be the cleanest mesh topology wise or perhaps too dense to work with for animation.

However there are other applications like TopoGun and Silo3D (even ZBrush 3) that will let you>retopologize< your MOI mesh(es) into a cleaner more animation friendly 1-piece mesh.

It's not less work, in fact it's more because you create your characters in MOI and then have to recreate them in Silo or TopoGun etc.

However as you mention, MOI is great for getting the designs in your mind OUT where as with other programs, your creativity is limited by trying to figure out how to push the polys around the way you'd like...

I've read a lot that says there's no right way or wrong way to do things in 3D; if your results are pleasing and they get the job done then it's RIGHT!

I say go for it! See how far you can take it...

-Will

Thank you Will. This is just a rough scratch of SharkMan. I will assign more details and body parts to him. I learned basics (and more) of MoI and now I just CAN'T start from the 0 point in some other app. In MoI everything is so logicaly programed and placed. I am very satisfyed with MoI and when I finish my project I will shiow you my results here.


All the best

This message, outlining the limitations of the Moi3d meshes for character modeling is precisely what I need to know.... and how to fix my work. Thanks for pointing this out, and mentioning topogun. After a wee of hair pulling and trying to "fix" the character model I painstakingly developed to find it its mesh ready for rigging in Poser, Daz or Messaiah. I tried with very little improvement retopo via 3DCoat (might as well start from scratch, but most promising), Wings3d (wont handle dense meshes) MeshLab (mesh mush), Blacksmith 3d (half baked), and Blender. Blender seemed the most capable app, however its interface proved too daunting for the intricate retopo object surgery needed.

On to TopoGun. - Ill report. Shame learning about the MoI mesh limitations with so much time invested. This significantly limits MoI3d for me. Why use a character head (easter island Moi face) as a logo, as I wrongly assumed that the MOI3d products appeals specifically _was_ for character modeling.

"The limitations of MOI meshes" is not a correct phrase. The limitations are limitations of the polygon modelling format. Poly modelling doesn't have the real world curves that exist in NURBS. This forces the MOI mesher to compensate by approximating with lots of straight line segments. That is why the meshes are dense. Any nurbs program will have to do the same thing. If you were definitely going for a poly format then why not start out with a program that gives you direct control over the vertices, edges and faces? If you are worried about mesh density and topology then NURBS is probably not the form of modelling you should be using. I don't see that MOI has claimed to be anything other than a good NURBS modeller, which I believe it is quite successful at being. You are not going to get good mesh topology designing with curves. It just won't work. Try subdivision surface modelling to get sort of close. You are definitely going to have to go to a poly modelling program to get it changed into a form suitable for character modelling though. On the other hand if you are trying to create a real world type object then NURBS is pretty much the only thing that will do. Poly modelling is for objects that can be made to "look" real. It's just two different types of modelling for different purposes.

You could still use MOI to make a model that you could use with a subD modeller, but that begs the question of why not start with the same program?

Also, don't you think it's an unfair assumption that because MOI's logo mascot is a rough Easter Island head that would make MOI a character modeller? GEICO is an insurance company with a lizard mascot. While I know the lizard is a gecko that still wouldn't make sense using your analogy.

...and Lacoste is a crocodile farm.

Hi Dream Cutter, yes MoI is not really a good choice for typical character modeling - character modeling is usually better done in a sub-d polygon modeling program where they have a variety of tools and focus on that particular kind of modeling. There is a somewhat higher learning curve there involved with learning how to manage topology and wrangle a lot of points though.

There is a lot of variety between different 3D modeling technologies, and different kinds of modeling tools have strengths for building different kinds of model shapes. There isn't really one single tool that is the best tool for just any kind of model, just like there isn't any one single tool in your workshop that is the best tool for every single kind of task that you need to do.

It helps if you use a tool that is more suited for your particular task at hand - for example in a workshop if you need to nail some stuff together you don't want to grab the saw to do that - use a hammer for that instead. The same kind of thing applies here as well - you're better off using the 3D modeling technique that is best suited for your particular needs.

Also see this other post for some additional explanation:
http://moi3d.com/forum/index.php?webtag=MOI&msg=3628.176


> Why use a character head (easter island Moi face) as a logo,

It's a play on words - those easter island face statues are actually called "moai":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moai

MoI -> Moai


> as I wrongly assumed that the MOI3d products appeals
> specifically _was_ for character modeling.

Hmm, no that's not a correct assumption - that's the first time I can remember hearing someone making this particular connection between the logo and the style of modeling that MoI is focused on... Sorry for the confusion!

If you would have asked any question about it here in the forum I would have definitely explained to you that it was not the best suited tool for that kind of job.

- Michael

Depends on the charater... I think a few of us made the MoI logo in 3d with MoI... Clearly though, there were NO warts or wrinkles... :o

Hi Burr yeah if the character is simple enough and has a kind of cartoony style it can be possible. But that's kind of a special case.

But even simple characters often tend to still have a little bit of details in the nose and mouth area that doesn't quite look right if those things are kind of tacked on as separate objects, aside from Mr Potato Head-y stuff... It's pretty frequent that especially the nose is more sculpted and fully blended into the rest of the face.

Actually Sculptris (http://www.sculptris.com) is a pretty good tool for a lot of that kind of stuff - it's easier to learn that type of brush based sculpting than regular polygon modeling particularly with Sculptris.

- Michael

How could you be so cruel to Mr. Potatoe head??? lol

I've always fooled around with that nose thing... It is tuff... Probably about 1.6 minutes in sculptris.... :o